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You likely know way more then me about this type of thing, but there was also an LG grid level battery in AZ that caught fire, the owner had an outside firm inspect the remaining undamaged cells and they found unusual dendrite growth in some of the cells. I will not claim to know what causes that but it sounds like a problem that could scale across many of these failures.

I wonder if there is a fundamental design problem with this battery cell design? Or are the problems manufacturing and materials related?
Dendrites are difficult to prevent even with a perfect battery, and as they form they reduce the battery capacity, but it is usually very gradual. Any puncture in the separator will lead to a short in the battery and potentially result in a fire. Excessive dendrite growth can puncture the separator. A manufacturing defect could accelerate the dendrite growth. So it is a compounding problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #162 ·
Dendrites are difficult to prevent even with a perfect battery, and as they form they reduce the battery capacity, but it is usually very gradual. Any puncture in the separator will lead to a short in the battery and potentially result in a fire. Excessive dendrite growth can puncture the separator. A manufacturing defect could accelerate the dendrite growth. So it is a compounding problem.
I see... Thanks for the explanation. Let me see if I understand, so if you have dendrite growth you will have a reduction in capacity, which should show up in reduced range?

One of the Bolt owners what had a fire previously, had reported a large reduction in range weeks before the fire, was that the warning sign that trouble was brewing?
 

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I see... Thanks for the explanation. Let me see if I understand, so if you have dendrite growth you will have a reduction in capacity, which should show up in reduced range?

One of the Bolt owners what had a fire previously, had reported a large reduction in range weeks before the fire, was that the warning sign that trouble was brewing?
Yes you get a reduction in range as the battery ages, but typically that is a slow process. The dendrites are formed by the chemicals in the battery itself, so you are effectively using up some of the chemicals. You can kind of think of that as normal wear and tear of a mechanical system.

A large reduction in range could be a sign that one row of cells has degraded significantly, the new battery monitors GM just added are supposed to help detect that better. But a cell failure could also be the result of something other than just dendrites. Hard to diagnose after the fact. GM will investigate all of the returned Bolt batteries and look for the problem in more detail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #164 ·
Yes you get a reduction in range as the battery ages, but typically that is a slow process. The dendrites are formed by the chemicals in the battery itself, so you are effectively using up some of the chemicals. You can kind of think of that as normal wear and tear of a mechanical system.

A large reduction in range could be a sign that one row of cells has degraded significantly, the new battery monitors GM just added are supposed to help detect that better. But a cell failure could also be the result of something other than just dendrites. Hard to diagnose after the fact. GM will investigate all of the returned Bolt batteries and look for the problem in more detail.
Ya, GM has to get to the bottom of this problem quickly.

I am sure GM wants to get the 2019 packs that have been deep cycled in for a look ASAP
 

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Ya, GM has to get to the bottom of this problem quickly.

I am sure GM wants to get the 2019 packs that have been deep cycled in for a look ASAP
That's essentially a win both ways. The owners get a new battery and GM will have plenty of samples to study to get to the bottom of it. Feel like that was well executed by GM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #166 ·
That's essentially a win both ways. The owners get a new battery and GM will have plenty of samples to study to get to the bottom of it. Feel like that was well executed by GM.
Ya, I give GM credit for doing the right thing, but they should have done this last year when the fires really started taking off. I have heard LG chem is very tough to deal with on these sorts of things, and GM will likely have to sue them to recover any of the cost of this recall.
 

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Hey Stranger, how have you been?
What's going on, Tom? All is well, apologies for having been away for so long! Such a busy time in my life currently lol...back when @Oakwood, @JimsH3 and I were updating this site all by ourselves in the year leading up to the October 2020 reveal...I was FAR less busy lol. I blame the pandemic on that.

Thank you for doing such a great job keeping the Forums firing on all cylinders!
 

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With all the new vids and sightings of the Hummer EV1, I cant take it much longer. I mean my wallet is happy! So another Thursday with no Hummer EV1 orders in sight....... anticipation has already killed me as we continue the GMC Hummer EV1 Order waiting game....Big Jon EV anything??
 

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Discussion Starter · #171 ·
With all the new vids and sightings of the Hummer EV1, I cant take it much longer. I mean my wallet is happy! So another Thursday with no Hummer EV1 orders in sight....... anticipation has already killed me as we continue the GMC Hummer EV1 Order waiting game....Big Jon EV anything??
I think we have to wait for GM to publicly reveal the Hummer EV before they are going to take orders. Hang in there, I do not think it will be long.
 

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I went by my dealership today for the 1st time and tried to pry some info out of them, but they weren't really helpful. The said that the owner had an Edition 1 and maybe 2 or 3 others.... But they weren't really wanting to talk about it. One of the employees (maybe an manager because the guy I was talking to kept taking my questions to him) said he had a 3X reservation... But not much from them as they seemed to think that it was going to be a while before they saw their 1st one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #173 ·
I went by my dealership today for the 1st time and tried to pry some info out of them, but they weren't really helpful. The said that the owner had an Edition 1 and maybe 2 or 3 others.... But they weren't really wanting to talk about it. One of the employees (maybe an manager because the guy I was talking to kept taking my questions to him) said he had a 3X reservation... But not much from them as they seemed to think that it was going to be a while before they saw their 1st one.
Quite possible it will be a while. I do not expect production to be more than 5 a day at the start, and going to 30 a day, so if they start in Late September, and ramp to 150 a week by the end of the year, it will take a while for all the dealerships to get one. Remember, Edition 1 reservations are not expected to filled until fall 2022.
 

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Quite possible it will be a while. I do not expect production to be more than 5 a day at the start, and going to 30 a day, so if they start in Late September, and ramp to 150 a week by the end of the year, it will take a while for all the dealerships to get one. Remember, Edition 1 reservations are not expected to filled until fall 2022.
What do you think the drop out rate will be... Just curious as I wasn't planning on ever receiving one until maybe Fall 2022...But at the price point of $112,000+ and only requiring a fully refundable $100 deposit... I wonder what the real rate will be... I know that if you did get your hands on one and couldn't really afford it that you could surely resell it for more than you paid. But, you would have to qualify for the loan 1st right? But hell what do I know.... I am in construction and I spoke with a sales agent today and one of their most popular homes they have raised the price from around $230,000 to $280,000 since January and their sales have not slowed..... I just wonder when this bubble is going to burst...
 

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Discussion Starter · #175 ·
What do you think the drop out rate will be... Just curious as I wasn't planning on ever receiving one until maybe Fall 2022...But at the price point of $112,000+ and only requiring a fully refundable $100 deposit... I wonder what the real rate will be... I know that if you did get your hands on one and couldn't really afford it that you could surely resell it for more than you paid. But, you would have to qualify for the loan 1st right? But hell what do I know.... I am in construction and I spoke with a sales agent today and one of their most popular homes they have raised the price from around $230,000 to $280,000 since January and their sales have not slowed..... I just wonder when this bubble is going to burst...
I think the drop out rate will be less than 10%, there might be guys buy them, and flip them though. You could probable play with it for a while and then flip it for a profit.

I have no idea when the music will stop in this economy, I have expected it to a few different times but it keeps rolling.
 

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With all the new vids and sightings of the Hummer EV1, I cant take it much longer. I mean my wallet is happy! So another Thursday with no Hummer EV1 orders in sight....... anticipation has already killed me as we continue the GMC Hummer EV1 Order waiting game....Big Jon EV anything??
Nothing here yet. All eyes on the Lyriq for us. Getting GM mystery shopper calls about the Lyriq right now just before reservations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #177 ·
Nothing here yet. All eyes on the Lyriq for us. Getting GM mystery shopper calls about the Lyriq right now just before reservations.
They are making sure you are ready? One of my buddies got to see Lyriq the day before yesterday, and said I need to take a look at it, He thinks its going to be hugely successful...
 

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They are making sure you are ready? One of my buddies got to see Lyriq the day before yesterday, and said I need to take a look at it, He thinks its going to be hugely successful...
Yes they are. They did it for the Hummer also as they know we will get a ton of phone calls asking questions and want us to be ready. So GM calls and then sends us a report card. The Lyriq is going to be a big hit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #179 ·
Yes they are. They did it for the Hummer also as they know we will get a ton of phone calls asking questions and want us to be ready. So GM calls and then sends us a report card. The Lyriq is going to be a big hit.
I am warming to Lyriq a bit, but still wish it had AWD for my use and the area I live. My buddy said the Cadillac folks told him, that like the hummerEV the first year Lyriq only has a couple options, color (2) and wheels (2), everything else is standard at the <60K. Like the Hummer, GM is planning to batch build the Lyriq.. Taking a page from Tesla's playbook. It sounds like a great package though, Heated and cooled seats standard... Wow...
 

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I am warming to Lyriq a bit, but still wish it had AWD for my use and the area I live. My buddy said the Cadillac folks told him, that like the hummerEV the first year Lyriq only has a couple options, color (2) and wheels (2), everything else is standard at the <60K. Like the Hummer, GM is planning to batch build the Lyriq.. Taking a page from Tesla's playbook.
Correct. It will have two exterior color options and two interior options. Standard 20's with optional 22's. That's it for options, everything else is standard. This is kind of a change for GM so I'm hoping this initial rollout should be fairly smooth.
 
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