[StillHummer]

Hey guys, apologies for the absence but so glad to be back with you all 👍

Not Hummer news but since it's Ultium related and I'm not about to "moderate" my own post lol...has anyone heard anything about the Celestiq?

Last I heard from articles and comments online, it was due to be revealed this summer. Well summer has come and gone and hey, no big daddy Caddy.

It's been EERILY quiet with this car since March.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Hey guys, apologies for the absence but so glad to be back with you all 👍

Not Hummer news but since it's Ultium related and I'm not about to "moderate" my own post lol...has anyone heard anything about the Celestiq?

Last I heard from articles and comments online, it was due to be revealed this summer. Well summer has come and gone and hey, no big daddy Caddy.

It's been EERILY quiet with this car since March.

I think GM will show Celestiq at their investor day event October 6 and 7. September and October will be busy months for GM reveals, I expect we will see refreshed Silverado and the EV version, Cruise Origin (production Model), Celestiq, Escalade EV, Chevy and Buick EV crossovers, Z06 Corvette, and of course the production Model HummerEV.

The Bolt fiasco might have pushed back some of GM's plans, but I think that is quickly quieting down, as GM is doing the right thing.

 

[MattF]

Well summer isnt technically done until September 22, so I think we are still ok. 😜. You must not live down here in the south to think it’s not summer still! Jk

But I do think Tom is correct in his assessment of the use of the investor day for some reveals like the Celestiq. I know it’s gonna be expensive but still looking forward to it as it should have some cool technology.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Well summer isnt technically done until September 22, so I think we are still ok. 😜. You must not live down here in the south to think it’s not summer still! Jk

But I do think Tom is correct in his assessment of the use of the investor day for some reveals like the Celestiq. I know it’s gonna be expensive but still looking forward to it as it should have some cool technology.

The one thing I think I might be wrong on is Silverado EV, that may be revealed on its own later in the year, or early next year. As GM is going to want to have undivided attention on that one, not want it blending in with other reveals. Part of me thinks GM will want to deliver HummerEV's before unveiling the Silverado EV ?

 

[Bboozer1]

I am with you, I do not know where you are, but in Columbia SC it is still definitely SUMMER... in the South I consider summer until at least Mid-October and hope to keep Wakeboarding without a wetsuit until almost November

 

[BahamaTodd]

The vehicles that GM teased below is what I expect to see very soon. From the left: Buick CUV 1, Lyriq, Buick CUV 2, Hummer, Silverado, Celestiq, Chevy CUV.

The Chevy CUV was also seen here behind Barra:

We will probably see the Escalade and Sierra late next year.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

The vehicles that GM teased below is what I expect to see very soon. From the left: Buick CUV 1, Lyriq, Buick CUV 2, Hummer, Silverado, Celestiq, Chevy CUV.
View attachment 1149

The Chevy CUV was also seen here behind Barra:
View attachment 1150

We will probably see the Escalade and Sierra late next year.

I do to think the GMC EV pickup will be called Sierra. GMC said the name is undecided.

 

[BahamaTodd]

I do to think the GMC EV pickup will be called Sierra. GMC said the name is undecided.

According to supplier forecasts they are referring to it as Sierra. Of course that can change.

Forecaster: GM to build electric Sierra, Escalade at Detroit-Hamtramck

GM will build electric versions of the Hummer, GMC Sierra and Cadillac Escalade at its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant, says LMC Automotive

www.detroitnews.com

Detroit — General Motors Co. plans to build the electric versions of the Hummer, GMC Sierra and Cadillac Escalade at its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant, according to LMC Automotive, an auto industry forecast company.
As a forecast company, LMC gathers intel from sources in the industry. From that, it has confirmed that GM will build a Hummer pickup truck and SUV in late 2021, Jeff Schuster, industry analyst with LMC Automotive told The Detroit News. A still-unknown van model is also expected to be built at the plant starting in 2021.

In mid-2023, production of the Sierra and Escalade will start at the plant, LMC also learned.

That unknown van is the Cruise Origin.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

According to supplier forecasts they are referring to it as Sierra. Of course that can change.

Forecaster: GM to build electric Sierra, Escalade at Detroit-Hamtramck

GM will build electric versions of the Hummer, GMC Sierra and Cadillac Escalade at its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant, says LMC Automotive

www.detroitnews.com

That unknown van is the Cruise Origin.

Look at the date on your article... 2019, so that is very old news. Accuracy is way off in that old speculation piece as it says Hummer Truck and SUV coming in 2021. If you look at GM's announcements it nullifies everything this forecaster thought, because the SilveradoEV and GMC EV pickups were announced to be pulled ahead in Nov 2020, Silverado by 11 months, and the GMC by 40 months. I think Silverado EV will go on sale in late 2022. There were a few events that lead to GM accelerating the schedules, first, GM was absolutely blown away by the interest in the Hummer EV, second, Barton Malow was able to accelerate the construction of the Lordstown battery plant (both of which were mentioned in this press conference) Since the Silverado EV shares the structure and may components with the HummerEV, it was the easiest project to pull ahead from 2024 model year to 2023 model year. The GMC pickup is the surprising on pulling ahead 40 months, so sounds like they did not expect to launch that one for a while, but after the HummerEV interest they pulled it way forward, I now expect to see that in early 2023, as a 2024 model.

GM Boosts Investment, Grows Electric Portfolio to Lead in EV Race | General Motors Company

- Thirty new global EV launches planned through 2025 - More than $27 billion in planned EV and AV product spending to exceed GM's gas and diesel investment - By mid-decade, GM's Ultium battery packs projected to cost 60 percent less than today's packs with twice the energy density - GM ups

investor.gm.com

 

[MattF]

The Celestiq and Hummer may have a bit of parts sharing, or at least technology sharing, going on. The 4ws and all wheel drive should at least incorporate some knowledge from what’s being done with the Hummer. The infotainment should have a couple years of learnings from the Unreal engine being used to jazz up the graphics.

I am curious what will be under that long hood. I know the Lyriq does not have a frunk but the Celestiq is supposed to be big, so I expect some usable storage space in there. From the photos it looks like a clamshell hood. I think an old school bifold hood which folds up from the sides would be unique and allow access to what I assume would be a “long” space - getting something that slid back to near the windshield could be difficult.

At the back, we think we know it will have a sloping hatchback style to it similar to what the Escala concept showed. The roof will have the foor quadrant glass roof that can darken.

Things I would like to see (some ideas obviously from other new cars like the Mercedes EQS): “wave to close” doors, advanced laser headlights, reclining rear seats, Ultracruise, and obviously the most kick @ss AKG stereo system. What am I missing?

 

[Tom E-Tron]

The Celestiq and Hummer may have a bit of parts sharing, or at least technology sharing, going on. The 4ws and all wheel drive should at least incorporate some knowledge from what’s being done with the Hummer. The infotainment should have a couple years of learnings from the Unreal engine being used to jazz up the graphics.

I am curious what will be under that long hood. I know the Lyriq does not have a frunk but the Celestiq is supposed to be big, so I expect some usable storage space in there. From the photos it looks like a clamshell hood. I think an old school bifold hood which folds up from the sides would be unique and allow access to what I assume would be a “long” space - getting something that slid back to near the windshield could be difficult.

At the back, we think we know it will have a sloping hatchback style to it similar to what the Escala concept showed. The roof will have the foor quadrant glass roof that can darken.

Things I would like to see (some ideas obviously from other new cars like the Mercedes EQS): “wave to close” doors, advanced laser headlights, reclining rear seats, Ultracruise, and obviously the most kick @ss AKG stereo system. What am I missing?

I am less excited about Celestiq, I think its a waste of engineering talent, and unnecessary. A limited edition true luxury- performance EV Escalade (All Aluminum, and not 1 part shared with GM pickups) would have been a better investment for Cadillac as a flagship. Something priced around $150k - $175K and will sell in the thousands per year instead of hundreds like planned for Celestiq. I think about every program as an investor, and how does this pay me back? I think GM is going to get laughed at on Celestiq, it will be nice and cool tech, but how do I make money on it?

The fact the Lyriq has that long hood, and no Frunk is another case of GM not getting it... It's a packaging mistake. Lyriq is not a well packaged car to begin with, its big, but not much cargo space. I understand if you have a short hood like ID4, a frunk is not expected, but when the hood area is 1/3 the length of the car, it should give the the user some usable storage?

I was looking at Rich Rebuilds Model S Plaid teardown, and man when you look at Tesla's packaging ideas, there is some genius in it. One example that blew me away is Tesla made the air tank for the air suspension into a strut brace for the front suspension, That is cool to use the structure of the air tank to brace the front suspension instead of having 2 components. I am not sure how much weight this saves or cost, but its clever. There are other ideas on this Plaid that are not as good.

Check this out at 14:20

 

[StillHummer]

I am less excited about Celestiq, I think its a waste of engineering talent, and unnecessary. A limited edition true luxury- performance EV Escalade (All Aluminum, and not 1 part shared with GM pickups) would have been a better investment for Cadillac as a flagship. Something priced around $150k - $175K and will sell in the thousands per year instead of hundreds like planned for Celestiq. I think about every program as an investor, and how does this pay me back? I think GM is going to get laughed at on Celestiq, it will be nice and cool tech, but how do I make money on it?

The fact the Lyriq has that long hood, and no Frunk is another case of GM not getting it... It's a packaging mistake. Lyriq is not a well packaged car to begin with, its big, but not much cargo space. I understand if you have a short hood like ID4, a frunk is not expected, but when the hood area is 1/3 the length of the car, it should give the the user some usable storage?

I was looking at Rich Rebuilds Model S Plaid teardown, and man when you look at Tesla's packaging ideas, there is some genius in it. One example that blew me away is Tesla made the air tank for the air suspension into a strut brace for the front suspension, That is cool to use the structure of the air tank to brace the front suspension instead of having 2 components. I am not sure how much weight this saves or cost, but its clever. There are other ideas on this Plaid that are not as good.

Check this out at 14:20

I'm on the other side of the fence, but that's because I'm looking at it differently. Im not looking at this as an investor, I'm looking at it as a GM aficionado, and Cadillac specifically.

Cadillac hasn't had a proper, world-beating flagship in over 50 years. Their bread and butter used to be large, RWD luxury sedans and coupes styled to the hilt. Standard of the World meant something back then. The CT6 was the closest they ever got to that formula, but it was never going to be a world-beater.

The Celestiq promises a return to form for the brand. Many people forget that Cadillac was once seen as an equal to, if not greater than Rolls Royce back in the 30's-60's. The new EV architecture allows Cadillac to build a stunning, massive, quiet flagship with zero compromises...while turning a PROFIT. This is something they could not do the last 50 years.

Build 400, 500, whatever. Don't make it a mass-market product. This car needs to establish IMAGE. Other luxury makes are totally dropping the ball on EV design...most notable the jellybean Mercedes EQS and hideous BMW IX. The first luxury brand to introduce stunning design with world-class luxury can lay claim to the infant "luxury electric vehicle" market before the rest. It's really an entirely new market...and it's arguably the last chance Cadillac will ever have to establish itself as the world standard in anything again.

The Lyriq design makes me excited. The Ultium platform makes me optimistic. I think it will be a rousing success. I've read online every Celestiq will essentially be coach built, too - very intriguing.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

I'm on the other side of the fence, but that's because I'm looking at it differently. Im not looking at this as an investor, I'm looking at it as a GM aficionado, and Cadillac specifically.

Cadillac hasn't had a proper, world-beating flagship in over 50 years. Their bread and butter used to be large, RWD luxury sedans and coupes styled to the hilt. Standard of the World meant something back then. The CT6 was the closest they ever got to that formula, but it was never going to be a world-beater.

The Celestiq promises a return to form for the brand. Many people forget that Cadillac was once seen as an equal to, if not greater than Rolls Royce back in the 30's-60's. The new EV architecture allows Cadillac to build a stunning, massive, quiet flagship with zero compromises...while turning a PROFIT. This is something they could not do the last 50 years.

Build 400, 500, whatever. Don't make it a mass-market product. This car needs to establish IMAGE. Other luxury makes are totally dropping the ball on EV design...most notable the jellybean Mercedes EQS and hideous BMW IX. The first luxury brand to introduce stunning design with world-class luxury can lay claim to the infant "luxury electric vehicle" market before the rest. It's really an entirely new market...and it's arguably the last chance Cadillac will ever have to establish itself as the world standard in anything again.

The Lyriq design makes me excited. The Ultium platform makes me optimistic. I think it will be a rousing success. I've read online every Celestiq will essentially be coach built, too - very intriguing.

That is true on Cadillac not having a Flagship sedan for 50 years, but I also think the world has changed, and now demand is for crossovers and SUV's primarily, so if you are going to have a truly special flagship vehicle, it should be in the class that is in high enough demand to support the production and development cost.

I agree with you on CT6, that was a nice car, but sold like crap, and never made money. See what I mean? GM lost about $300M on the CT6 program,

I am not sure GM has the technology or ambition to compete with Tesla, Mercedes, or Lucid in large EV sedans. With 3 serious players already in that tiny segment. I think GM will come in with a too heavy gigantic car that gets beat all over by the other 3, and just becomes a technological embarrassment to the company rather than an asset...

You make fun of the "jellybean" EQS, remember EV design 101, weight savings and aerodynamics drive efficiency, and more efficiency means you get more range with the same battery, and most customers buying an EV, range is numero uno on their shopping list. If a company says heck with efficiency, I will just install a bigger battery to get the range, now your car gets heavy. Heavy cars don't accelerate as well, don't stop as well, don't handle as well, and are less dynamic to drive typically, so you get a car that is a turd. Audi was fighting that on the E-Tron, and had to really beef up the suspension, tires, and brakes to handle all the weight, and they made it work on the track at the limits its pretty good, but my Tesla Model Y which weighs 1200 lbs less, but has far more range, and even more interior cargo space is way more fun to drive day to day. That 1200 lbs is very noticeable in the driving dynamics. Read any E-Tron review and the first thing in the driving section is "this is a heavy car". One road trip at 80 mph in your Hummer EV and you will know what I mean when you are stopping to charge ALOT... Watch the attached video...

If GM focused on doing the best Cadillac Escalade EV that is possible, (using all first principals in engineering, light weighting, and efficiency focused) that would be a commercial success, draw more attention to the brand, and for now you have no competition in that segment (so no direct spec sheet comparisons), and a lot of Tesla Model X buyers want to move up to something bigger and more practical. You better bet Ford is going to throw the Lincoln Navigator body on the Lightning frame, sooner than later (Right now today Navigator beats even the current Escalade in most driving reviews) Mercedes also has a EV G wagon in development, and I can bet Tesla already has plans drawn for an SUV based off the Cybertruck chassis. Rivian is also talking about a larger truck and SUV. So the window of opportunity is going to close in that segment too in the next 5 years. GM has a limited window of time to establish their name as a serious EV producer that can be trusted, and the Bolt fiasco was like a kick in the teeth right off the get go.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

I'm on the other side of the fence, but that's because I'm looking at it differently. Im not looking at this as an investor, I'm looking at it as a GM aficionado, and Cadillac specifically.

Cadillac hasn't had a proper, world-beating flagship in over 50 years. Their bread and butter used to be large, RWD luxury sedans and coupes styled to the hilt. Standard of the World meant something back then. The CT6 was the closest they ever got to that formula, but it was never going to be a world-beater.

The Celestiq promises a return to form for the brand. Many people forget that Cadillac was once seen as an equal to, if not greater than Rolls Royce back in the 30's-60's. The new EV architecture allows Cadillac to build a stunning, massive, quiet flagship with zero compromises...while turning a PROFIT. This is something they could not do the last 50 years.

Build 400, 500, whatever. Don't make it a mass-market product. This car needs to establish IMAGE. Other luxury makes are totally dropping the ball on EV design...most notable the jellybean Mercedes EQS and hideous BMW IX. The first luxury brand to introduce stunning design with world-class luxury can lay claim to the infant "luxury electric vehicle" market before the rest. It's really an entirely new market...and it's arguably the last chance Cadillac will ever have to establish itself as the world standard in anything again.

The Lyriq design makes me excited. The Ultium platform makes me optimistic. I think it will be a rousing success. I've read online every Celestiq will essentially be coach built, too - very intriguing.

OK, I got to see the EQS up close on Jay Leno's garage, its FUGLY... You were right... I am OK with the front view, but side, the A pillar area reminds me of the Volt, and not in a good way...