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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I figured it would be the Rivian or the Maverick, and sure enough. MotorTrend was really impressed with Rivian's more complete package of capabilities, more luxurious interior, and value.

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Love to know how close it was for the final vote
If you want to understand where the Hummer stacked up...

No matter how you compare it, the R1T's value stands up. Put it against the only other electric truck out there, the GMC Hummer EV pickup, and the Rivian hauls more, tows more, has a nicer interior, has more storage space, drives better, rides and handles better, is only slightly slower in a straight line, and costs tens of thousands of dollars less.

Although Rivian deliberately designed the R1T to appeal to a wealthier, active-lifestyle audience rather than the blue-collar crowd, the truck isn't limited by this decision. As evidence: It can haul hay bales and pull horse trailers, and it can conquer Moab's famous Hell's Revenge trail. As a truck, it nails its intended function.
 

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If you want to understand where the Hummer stacked up...

No matter how you compare it, the R1T's value stands up. Put it against the only other electric truck out there, the GMC Hummer EV pickup, and the Rivian hauls more, tows more, has a nicer interior, has more storage space, drives better, rides and handles better, is only slightly slower in a straight line, and costs tens of thousands of dollars less.

Although Rivian deliberately designed the R1T to appeal to a wealthier, active-lifestyle audience rather than the blue-collar crowd, the truck isn't limited by this decision. As evidence: It can haul hay bales and pull horse trailers, and it can conquer Moab's famous Hell's Revenge trail. As a truck, it nails its intended function.
On the other hand, the Rivian has a smaller bed (shorter and narrower), doesn’t have any physical buttons so it has inferior ergonomics, has no distribution/stores whatsoever, has an inferior frunk which is hard to access, no removable roof and is inferior off-road. So it all depends upon what people find important!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
On the other hand, the Rivian has a smaller bed (shorter and narrower), doesn’t have any physical buttons so it has inferior ergonomics, has no distribution/stores whatsoever, has an inferior frunk which is hard to access, no removable roof and is inferior off-road. So it all depends upon what people find important!
Inferior off road? how do you know? Seeing some youtube videos R1T is extremely good off road, and went places I am not sure the Hummer EV could go through.

What I think MotorTrend is saying though, is the Hummer has annoying behaviors while driving, wind noise, hobby horse suspension, and on top of those it has a cheap interior with typical GM cost cutting. The biggest though is the Hummer is not a good pickup truck, lower payload and towing. GM built a toy, that while fun is also annoying, Rivian built a revolutionary pickup truck that redefines the segment with a Range Rover interior, and pretty amazing off road capability, and very quick. Rivian is not perfect, but its offers a more balanced package for $40K less than the Hummer EV.
 

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On the other hand, the Rivian has a smaller bed (shorter and narrower), doesn’t have any physical buttons so it has inferior ergonomics, has no distribution/stores whatsoever, has an inferior frunk which is hard to access, no removable roof and is inferior off-road. So it all depends upon what people find important!
Inferior off road? how do you know? Seeing some youtube videos R1T is extremely good off road, and went places I am not sure the Hummer EV could go through.
At this point, even with trucks supposedly en route to dealers, we really don't have much insight into how the Hummer will perform off-road (outside of images of the trucks at Moab and the 2-foot high boulder course at the GM proving grounds).

While I understand the need for secrecy at GM, they might want to trickle out a bit more information at some point.

We do know, however, that the Rivian has a more sophisticated air and hydraulic suspension system which could be a great benefit off-road or a detractor, depending on reliability (which is yet to be proven, of course), and the Demuro and other videos show the Rivian traction control system getting confused in slippery situations (whereas the Hummer has at least a more traditional locker setup). Also, much lighter weight - the Hummer's weight, as many of us has noted, may be a big detractor generally (though note eight lug hubs vs. five on the Rivian and I suspect things may just be generally "beefier" on the Hummer).
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
At this point, even with trucks supposedly en route to dealers, we really don't have much insight into how the Hummer will perform off-road (outside of images of the trucks at Moab and the 2-foot high boulder course at the GM proving grounds).

While I understand the need for secrecy at GM, they might want to trickle out a bit more information at some point.

We do know, however, that the Rivian has a more sophisticated air and hydraulic suspension system which could be a great benefit off-road or a detractor, depending on reliability (which is yet to be proven, of course), and the Demuro and other videos show the Rivian traction control system getting confused in slippery situations (whereas the Hummer has at least a more traditional locker setup). Also, much lighter weight - the Hummer's weight, as many of us has noted, may be a big detractor generally (though note eight lug hubs vs. five on the Rivian and I suspect things may just be generally "beefier" on the Hummer).
Ya, agree, the Hummer is definitely beefier, and having a front locker is an advantage when you are traction limited. How many HummerEv's or Rivian R1T's will actually be off roaded that hard though? I would say very few. I think they are likely quite evenly matched while off roading, HummerEv better on one trail, and Rivian better on another trail, both likely have far more capability than will ever be used by their typical owner. On road, there is no competition, the Rivian would be far easier to live with on a day to day basis due to interior comfort, quietness, efficiency, and better pickup truck capability.

I think @Aloppen and the GM team got kicked in the rear by this MotorTrend article, and they have a lot of work to do to make the Silverado, and Sierra EV's perform better in most ways, and also make improvements to the HummerEv as soon as they can, because nearly all reviewers are going to complain about the exaggerated body movements, and passengers riding in the truck might even get sea sick. This is a chance for GM management to show they have changed and take the critical comments seriously, and fix it quickly.
 

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On the other hand, the Rivian has a smaller bed (shorter and narrower), doesn’t have any physical buttons so it has inferior ergonomics, has no distribution/stores whatsoever, has an inferior frunk which is hard to access, no removable roof and is inferior off-road. So it all depends upon what people find important!
Bed on the R1T is barely smaller. 6" shorter with the tailgate closed, actually longer when the tailgate down. Not a whole lot of difference in usable width. Rivian frunk is bigger than it looks, but would be so much more useful if it were front accessible like Hummer or the Ford. Rivian has said they're planning on offering a removable roof, but nothing official yet, it's just been mentioned as something they're considering. Inferior off-road? Compared to what? Hummer only has more ground clearance with Extract Mode and comes stock with AT tires that are only 1" larger in diameter. The 275/65-20 AT tires on the R1T are 34x11. Hummer's are 35x12. Can fit up to 35's on the R1T, up to 37's on the Hummer. Those options are fitting considering the respective sizes of the trucks. Both have insanely good approach and departure angles. Hummer has a bit more HP and torque and 4-wheel steering. R1T has higher tow capacity and 4-wheel torque steer/ tank turn ability. R1T is more trail friendly in terms of size and weighs less than the Hummer....

There is no one-size-fits-all vehicle for off-road or any other purpose.

I can't render my ultimate judgement on the Hummer until I get to drive it. I have driven the R1T... It's amazing. My only complaints about the R1T re little usability quibbles like it would be nice to have a few tactile buttons or switches for some things or upfit options and the camera system was incomplete when I got my hands on it. Supposedly it's improved a lot in the last few weeks. No integrated simple garage door opener. But I guess I can tell Alexa to open the doors... Or have here do it automagically when I'm pulling into my driveway. Kinda sucks if we need to control a simple gate or something.

I was really looking forward to Doug Demuro's review of the R1T and he totally missed a couple things. He could have missed them because he was driving a pre-production truck and didn't have a Rivian person walking him through it all. The main things were the various drive modes. No mention at all in either the main review or the off-road supplement. Too bad because they make a big difference. Especially in off-road where there are a couple modes to choose from that have one-pedal off-road and hill hold and various other features. The other thing is the individual tire TPMS. It's there, but in the pre-production it was only visible in a settings screen and not where it's supposed to be. Totally understand why he missed that.

His little off-road test was fairly impressive seeing how he did it in standard drive mode. But does not accurately represent any of the various traction or drive modes available that he didn't acknowledge.

Really looking forward to Doug's review of the Hummer EV.

Anyway, I got my R1T reservation (max pack) and I've got my Hummer EV3X reservation... Still 100% planning on getting both of them. Will keep the one I like best or maybe both...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Bed on the R1T is barely smaller. 6" shorter with the tailgate closed, actually longer when the tailgate down. Not a whole lot of difference in usable width. Rivian frunk is bigger than it looks, but would be so much more useful if it were front accessible like Hummer or the Ford. Rivian has said they're planning on offering a removable roof, but nothing official yet, it's just been mentioned as something they're considering. Inferior off-road? Compared to what? Hummer only has more ground clearance with Extract Mode and comes stock with AT tires that are only 1" larger in diameter. The 275/65-20 AT tires on the R1T are 34x11. Hummer's are 35x12. Can fit up to 35's on the R1T, up to 37's on the Hummer. Those options are fitting considering the respective sizes of the trucks. Both have insanely good approach and departure angles. Hummer has a bit more HP and torque and 4-wheel steering. R1T has higher tow capacity and 4-wheel torque steer/ tank turn ability. R1T is more trail friendly in terms of size and weighs less than the Hummer....

There is no one-size-fits-all vehicle for off-road or any other purpose.

I can't render my ultimate judgement on the Hummer until I get to drive it. I have driven the R1T... It's amazing. My only complaints about the R1T re little usability quibbles like it would be nice to have a few tactile buttons or switches for some things or upfit options and the camera system was incomplete when I got my hands on it. Supposedly it's improved a lot in the last few weeks. No integrated simple garage door opener. But I guess I can tell Alexa to open the doors... Or have here do it automagically when I'm pulling into my driveway. Kinda sucks if we need to control a simple gate or something.

I was really looking forward to Doug Demuro's review of the R1T and he totally missed a couple things. He could have missed them because he was driving a pre-production truck and didn't have a Rivian person walking him through it all. The main things were the various drive modes. No mention at all in either the main review or the off-road supplement. Too bad because they make a big difference. Especially in off-road where there are a couple modes to choose from that have one-pedal off-road and hill hold and various other features. The other thing is the individual tire TPMS. It's there, but in the pre-production it was only visible in a settings screen and not where it's supposed to be. Totally understand why he missed that.

His little off-road test was fairly impressive seeing how he did it in standard drive mode. But does not accurately represent any of the various traction or drive modes available that he didn't acknowledge.

Really looking forward to Doug's review of the Hummer EV.

Anyway, I got my R1T reservation (max pack) and I've got my Hummer EV3X reservation... Still 100% planning on getting both of them. Will keep the one I like best or maybe both...
Doug said he cut a lot out of the R1T video to get the time down. I think the Hummer will score high in the Doug score, 68-71, but will not likely beat the R1T, due to the lower quality interior, wind noise and hobby horsing. My guess is Hummer scores higher then R1T on weekend categories, but lower on daily categories. Should see the video this week. Will the weekend scores bail out the daily scores? Will Doug still want to buy one?

Hummer is a huge win for GM, but they just ran into a Buzz Saw in the R1T that is more fully baked, and does more things well.

Maybe Rivian will charge extra for the software on the garage door controller, that's what Tesla does, it's $250 as I recall.
 

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No doubt the Hummer is a huge win for GM. I'm still amazed they're able to create an EV at that scale and still maintain 300+ miles of range and the off-road capability. I know I've made some comments here recently that might have people thinking otherwise, but I seriously can't wait to take the Hummer for a test drive!

Maybe Rivian will charge extra for the software on the garage door controller, that's what Tesla does, it's $250 as I recall.
Tesla charges $300 for the Model 3 and Y to install the HomeLink garage door module, still included standard on the S and X. It's like a $5 transmitter part, but that's what Chamberlain charges to license it, like $250 and then Tesla bumps it to $300 to cover the install. Elon got in a spat with Chamberlain over it. Ford actually got sued by Chamberlain and lost when they tried to create their own integrated opener that did the same thing. Patents can be a real bitch sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No doubt the Hummer is a huge win for GM. I'm still amazed they're able to create an EV at that scale and still maintain 300+ miles of range and the off-road capability. I know I've made some comments here recently that might have people thinking otherwise, but I seriously can't wait to take the Hummer for a test drive!


Tesla charges $300 for the Model 3 and Y to install the HomeLink garage door module, still included standard on the S and X. It's like a $5 transmitter part, but that's what Chamberlain charges to license it, like $250 and then Tesla bumps it to $300 to cover the install. Elon got in a spat with Chamberlain over it. Ford actually got sued by Chamberlain and lost when they tried to create their own integrated opener that did the same thing. Patents can be a real bitch sometimes.
GM has integrated "Homelink" remotes in nearly all their products higher than the base model. I highly doubt GM pays $250 for that across the millions of cars per year. Here it is in my 2020...


Vehicle Car Plant Motor vehicle Automotive design
 

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The Mach E has it integrated. The buttons in my older 2008 GMC Sierra, won't work with the newer updated openers. I guess that is the technology penalty of keeping a vehicle for a long time. Plus I have 5 garage doors and only three buttons available.:cry:

Hopefully today they will use SDR (software defined radio) technology, so that it can be updated via OTA for functions like this.
 

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GM has integrated "Homelink" remotes in nearly all their products higher than the base model. I highly doubt GM pays $250 for that across the millions of cars per year. Here it is in my 2020...


View attachment 1443
GM oddly skipped several vehicles with Homelink in the past 5 or 6 years, the Gen 2 Volt didn't have it at all no matter the trim while Gen 1 did.
 

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They really should not compare the Rivian R1T with the Hummer EV. They are in different leagues. Yea, both electric, both ground breaking engineering designs, both pickup trucks, but that's it!
I don't think IMHO people will be deciding on which one they should get. You got your HUMMER People and you have everyone else. Just like the Presidency You have your Trump People and then you have everyone else. Not to get political about it, it's just the way it is, right or wrong!
I'm a HUMMER Guy, I've had an H1, H2, & H3. Still have the H2 and love it despite what all the Naysayers have said about it since 2003!
So that being said, I can't wait to take my Hummer EV to cars and coffee in Beverly Hills...lol!!!!
 

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They really should not compare the Rivian R1T with the Hummer EV. They are in different leagues. Yea, both electric, both ground breaking engineering designs, both pickup trucks, but that's it!
I don't think IMHO people will be deciding on which one they should get. You got your HUMMER People and you have everyone else. Just like the Presidency You have your Trump People and then you have everyone else. Not to get political about it, it's just the way it is, right or wrong!
I'm a HUMMER Guy, I've had an H1, H2, & H3. Still have the H2 and love it despite what all the Naysayers have said about it since 2003!
So that being said, I can't wait to take my Hummer EV to cars and coffee in Beverly Hills...lol!!!!
Well, If they added a new category of Hummer of the Year, do you think the Hummer EV would win it?

I have reservations for both trucks. Plan on taking delivery on both trucks and keeping the one that I like better. It's probably going to be the Rivian. I don't want a Hummer just because it's a Hummer.
 
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