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Haha. A lot has changed in the last 2 months since my post. I do think we’ll see more production prototypes this summer when they’re installing and tuning the production line equipment. Based on comments over the last couple weeks, it seems confirmed that we can expect more Cybertruck design changes and the new design elements and other production/ supply considerations are now more of an impact on the scheduling than the factory construction.

4680 cell production and battery cost reductions have been an ambiguous target since their announcements. The major improvements in battery efficiency and cost were said to be a few years out when they had battery day. 3-4 years according to this earnings call... Yeah, so not shocking, but also not what I was hoping to hear.

New Model S and X refresh with tri-motor and new interiors look nice. I’m kinda wishing I would have held my 2016 X a while longer, skipped the Y and got the X refresh. The Y is a good car. In many ways a great car. But the X is better in most every way. And a lot more expensive.
Yeah, it now sounds like Cybertruck will rely less on a stressed skin body, and more on structural castings, this is news too.

On Batteries it sounds like Tesla is guiding the same as GM, GM has said they will reduce battery cost 60% by 2025, and GM engineers said off the record they are gunning for 400 wh/kg cell density

I was extremely disappointed with the S refresh (it looks the same), the interior looks better (steering wheel sucks IMO), and more features to compete with E-Tron, but the range increase is disappointing, and they are sticking with the old structure/ suspension, which is long in the tooth at this point. Just putting in faster motors is not really what S and X needed. I mean X already had E-Tron massively beat in horsepower, but loses to E-Tron on the track. Handling balance is what was needed, X has more HP, and less mass, and still loses to E-Tron... hmmm... That can only mean bad engineering. S and X just have too much chassis flex, X is one of the worst modern cars I have ever seen tested in bending moments. When they cut out the roof rails for the rear doors, it killed the chassis ridgity. X and Y are not really comparable, Y has far better engineering, and an extremely stiff chassis. Y is way more fun to drive, and on a track, laughs at the model X, even the Raven X performance which has double the power loses to a base AWD Y on the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
They upgraded the suspension on the S and X with the 2019 ‘Raven’ refresh. It’s much better than before. That said, I’m really disappointed that they did not go all the way with the air suspension to be more dynamic or customizable for ride control. The range increase is due to the improved motors and software, the new tri-motor setup is very efficient. Hence why Cybertruck and the Hummer will be going that route as will the Tesla Roadster and others. We won’t see a significant jump in range until they move to the new batteries.

Having driven a Taycan for a day, it really puts into perspective what the Model S is and what it could be.
 

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They upgraded the suspension on the S and X with the 2019 ‘Raven’ refresh. It’s much better than before. That said, I’m really disappointed that they did not go all the way with the air suspension to be more dynamic or customizable for ride control. The range increase is due to the improved motors and software, the new tri-motor setup is very efficient. Hence why Cybertruck and the Hummer will be going that route as will the Tesla Roadster and others. We won’t see a significant jump in range until they move to the new batteries.

Having driven a Taycan for a day, it really puts into perspective what the Model S is and what it could be.
They upgraded the suspension on the S and X with the 2019 ‘Raven’ refresh. It’s much better than before. That said, I’m really disappointed that they did not go all the way with the air suspension to be more dynamic or customizable for ride control. The range increase is due to the improved motors and software, the new tri-motor setup is very efficient. Hence why Cybertruck and the Hummer will be going that route as will the Tesla Roadster and others. We won’t see a significant jump in range until they move to the new batteries.

Having driven a Taycan for a day, it really puts into perspective what the Model S is and what it could be.
Looking at the specs, the range on the Plaid is less then the dual motor 412 vs 390, to be honest, there is no reason to buy the plaid, the new Model S has plenty of value at $82K. I like the changes they made on the inside (less steering wheel) and performance. Yes, the Raven suspension is better. Tesla changed suppliers on the Air Suspension to ZF on the Raven, and improved the software controls. I would almost buy the new S now, but for me, the 18650 batteries scare me, we had a friends car have thermal runaway, and I would not be able to sleep at night if it was charging, and the back seat (old model) was too cramped for a car that size. I like the interior packaging better on the Lucid, I think they did a better job with the space with the exception of the trunk opening. Just no perfect car out there. ;) 3 motor like Hummer EV with one driving each rear wheel is not more efficient than a differential in the EPA cycle, but is better at high power levels, and gives you vectored control of the wheels for performance driving.

As I understand the new Model S range increase to 412 is due to aerodynamic improvements on the new model, Cd of .208, which is amazingly slick. I look forward to driving one...

Taycan is an amazing car, the local dealer lent me his Turbo S for a day... But $210K is too rich for my blood. I can waste money on a work truck because of section 179, but not for a car.
 

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They upgraded the suspension on the S and X with the 2019 ‘Raven’ refresh. It’s much better than before. That said, I’m really disappointed that they did not go all the way with the air suspension to be more dynamic or customizable for ride control. The range increase is due to the improved motors and software, the new tri-motor setup is very efficient. Hence why Cybertruck and the Hummer will be going that route as will the Tesla Roadster and others. We won’t see a significant jump in range until they move to the new batteries.

Having driven a Taycan for a day, it really puts into perspective what the Model S is and what it could be.
Looking at the specs, the range on the Plaid is less then the dual motor 412 vs 390, to be honest, there is no reason to buy the plaid, the new Model S has plenty of value at $82K. I like the changes they made on the inside (less steering wheel) and performance. Yes, the Raven suspension is better. Tesla changed suppliers on the Air Suspension to ZF on the Raven, and improved the software controls. I would almost buy the new S now, but for me, the 18650 batteries scare me, we had a friends car have thermal runaway, and I would not be able to sleep at night if it was charging, and the back seat (old model) was too cramped for a car that size. I like the interior packaging better on the Lucid, I think they did a better job with the space with the exception of the trunk opening. Just no perfect car out there. ;) 3 motor like Hummer EV with one driving each rear wheel is not more efficient than a differential in the EPA cycle, but is better at high power levels, and gives you vectored control of the wheels for performance driving.

As I understand the new Model S range increase to 412 is due to aerodynamic improvements on the new model, Cd of .208, which is amazingly slick. I look forward to driving one...

Taycan is an amazing car, the local dealer lent me his Turbo S for a day... But $210K is too rich for my blood. I can waste money on a work truck because of section 179, but not for a car.
I haven't been inside a Taycan but from what I've read about the car the speed is otherworldly. What stood out for you guys when driving it?
 

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I haven't been inside a Taycan but from what I've read about the car the speed is otherworldly. What stood out for you guys when driving it?
First and foremost for me is the seating position, it really fits nicely, and locks you in place. You know you are sitting in something special. The second thing for me is how quiet it is while driving, Quite similar to my E-Tron, which is basically like a bank vault, makes you feel like you are in your own world. Third is the handling, and ride quality, it is soft right up to the point that you push it, and then is sucks down on rails. I do not have experience in 911's, so I cannot compare, but the way the Taycan grips the road is quite impressive. The acceleration I expected, so not a surprise there, but in a launch it feels like it deforms your face it is pulling so hard. It is an intoxicating feeling. IMO the Taycan is the best EV drivers car on the market, and nothing is close for now. I am excited to see the E-Tron GT, next week, it should be a toned down Taycan and maybe a bit more luxurious.
 

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First and foremost for me is the seating position, it really fits nicely, and locks you in place. You know you are sitting in something special. The second thing for me is how quiet it is while driving, Quite similar to my E-Tron, which is basically like a bank vault, makes you feel like you are in your own world. Third is the handling, and ride quality, it is soft right up to the point that you push it, and then is sucks down on rails. I do not have experience in 911's, so I cannot compare, but the way the Taycan grips the road is quite impressive. The acceleration I expected, so not a surprise there, but in a launch it feels like it deforms your face it is pulling so hard. It is an intoxicating feeling. IMO the Taycan is the best EV drivers car on the market, and nothing is close for now. I am excited to see the E-Tron GT, next week, it should be a toned down Taycan and maybe a bit more luxurious.
I believe the seating position is the same as the 911 so that makes sense that it locks you in place. It'll be interesting to see how similar/different the e-tron GT is since it shares the same platform as the Taycan.
 

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I believe the seating position is the same as the 911 so that makes sense that it locks you in place. It'll be interesting to see how similar/different the e-tron GT is since it shares the same platform as the Taycan.
E-Tron GT should be a bit toned down suspension wise, and a bit more luxurious on the interior. One of my friends is counting the moments and planning to order one... My lifestyle and garage space do not allow for a sports car now, so I cannot buy one, plus I do not want to have 2 cars of the same brand, that is too homer-ish for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
My thoughts on the Taycan are pretty similar. Acceleration of my brother's 2019 performance Model S is very similar to the "Turbo" Taycan I drove, but the Taycan feels more aggressive as speed climbs north of 70mph and it offered a higher top speed that I was not able to push to. The suspension and handling is where the Taycan really shines. And of course, less minimalistic interior with better overall fit and finish. And you get Porsche's classic styling. Not to say I don't appreciate a lot of what Tesla has done with their styling of the Model S. I think Tesla has some really clean design language, but at times gives way to minimalism more than it should or tries to solve a problem no one has -- falcon doors on the Model X for example. Owned our Model X for over 4 years and while doors were fun and did on occasion serve to be quite practical, they were not as utilitarian on a daily basis as regular doors. If I were hauling the elderly or loading bulky car seats in and out on a daily basis, the falcon doors would be amazing.

E-Tron GT will be very appealing to many, I think. It will be a more realistic competitor to the Model S and less of a sports car or even fantasy purchase for many. For my day to day use, the Model S would win out for me if I had to decide between it and a Taycan. S is more utilitarian and I could pre-order the 520+ mile range Plaid+ tri-motor S to have it later this year and still have enough left over to buy a Hummer EV vs. buying a fully spec'd Taycan Turbo.

If I were willing to dump $200K+ into a sports car, I would definitely wait to see the Tesla Roadster before making the decision. ...Unless I just had $250K burning a hole in my pocket.
 
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