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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Leaked document from Auto Forecast Solutions seems to give some insight into GM plans for future EV's

I was right, both Blazer and Equinox are being produced in Mexico.

I was right Lansing Grand River will be the next USA assembly plant converted to EV (not yet announced)

Celestiq will be the next Caddy EV after Lyriq in Fall 2023 Symboliq 2025 at Spring Hill

Escalade EV coming in early 2024, and Tahoe/Yukon in 2026 Production at Factory Zero

I was wrong on Wentzville which I thought would build Colorado and Canyon EV.

Orion will produce Silverado/ Sierra 2025 , Colorado Canyon EV 2026

*Edit Unfortunately no good EV news for Buick until 2024. (most disappointing to me)

Take all of this with a grain of salt, GM has been moving EV schedules up rapidly, so more likely some of these will get pulled ahead but this does give a layout.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
When the hell is the Celestiq getting revealed? This has gotten beyond ridiculous...show it already!
I am going to recommend that people who are curious search out this document before its deleted. I will not post it for fear of getting in trouble, but its full of interesting information. A couple examples,

Start of production for SilveradoE March 2023, but GMC Sierra EV October 2023, hmmm... Hummer SUV January 2023

Lansing Grand River, will get Buick Crossover, Cadillac Crossover, and BEV Corvette?? HUH? Corvette not made in Bowling Green? Will the BEV Corvette be a crossover? HUH?

Another Tidbit for GM fans, the Honda GM partnership on EV's goes both ways, with GM supplying Honda with a couple BEV's in 2024, but Honda supplying GM 5 (all crossovers 2 Buick, 2 Chevy, and a GMC) in 2026-2029

There is a bigger BrightDrop EV 1000 coming soon...

There is even Tesla news, this document says Tesla will start production of Roadster in July 2023, and Cybertruck in October 2023.
 

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I really hope they have performance models planned. Would love to consider a slightly smaller truck than the Rivian, but I'm not giving it up for a truck that's barely competitive with the dinosaurs performance wise.
I really wish the manufacturers would actually make a top of the line mid-size truck. I agree - not everyone wants a massive full size, but you can’t find a mid-size with any decent power or features. That new Ford Ranger Raptor is a great start though…!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I really wish the manufacturers would actually make a top of the line mid-size truck. I agree - not everyone wants a massive full size, but you can’t find a mid-size with any decent power or features. That new Ford Ranger Raptor is a great start though…!
The problem is midsize trucks cost almost the same to build as full sized trucks, but the market wants to pay less for them, so its harder to make profit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Looks like Celestiq will be revealed in June:
GM Authority = low fidelity information. Celestiq RWD standard, AWD optional? HAHA! It will be unbelievable if GM goes that route, a 200K car will only come with the highest end running gear, and electronics.

Celestiq will be an embarrassment for GM if it has less than 400 miles of range, less than 1000 HP slower than 2.5 seconds to 60, less than 300 kW charging, no frunk, or any hint of GM patented cheap plastic anywhere. If so, Lucid just embarrasses them. I think GM should license the Lucid drivetrain and battery system for Celestiq, and all the other high end EV's, on the low production programs it would save billions in development costs.
 

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GM Authority = low fidelity information. Celestiq RWD standard, AWD optional? HAHA! It will be unbelievable if GM goes that route, a 200K car will only come with the highest end running gear, and electronics.

Celestiq will be an embarrassment for GM if it has less than 400 miles of range, less than 1000 HP slower than 2.5 seconds to 60, less than 300 kW charging, no frunk, or any hint of GM patented cheap plastic anywhere. If so, Lucid just embarrasses them. I think GM should license the Lucid drivetrain and battery system for Celestiq, and all the other high end EV's, on the low production programs it would save billions in development costs.
I would not recommend using Lucid tech. Their self driving technology is not worth a darn and the batteries are not special. The ride is not very good and the back seating is uncomfortable due to the power pack under the floor. Only the motors are special. The aerodynamics are good but any car maker can do that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I would not recommend using Lucid tech. Their self driving technology is not worth a darn and the batteries are not special. The ride is not very good and the back seating is uncomfortable due to the power pack under the floor. Only the motors are special. The aerodynamics are good but any car maker can do that.
Note I did not mention Lucid's driving tech, but only their battery and drive units which are by all measures best in class.

On ride, you are wrong, Lucid suspension for a non air suspension is amazing and has been universally praised. I drove one, its very good, not EQS level though, I have driven that too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I would not recommend using Lucid tech. Their self driving technology is not worth a darn and the batteries are not special. The ride is not very good and the back seating is uncomfortable due to the power pack under the floor. Only the motors are special. The aerodynamics are good but any car maker can do that.
Hmm, seems to go against what you say...

 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The fact that they don't tells a different story. Especially when EV range is such a huge competition right now.
Ya, range and efficiency has not been the focus of companies like GM yet, and Lucid Air was designed from day 1 with the goal of being the most efficient luxury Sedan. In the video I posted, Jason points out that the traditional OEM's can do the same things, but for whatever reason they don't? Interestingly of Lucid, Tesla, Rivian, and GM, only GM owns a wind tunnel (they have 3) but yet it does not seem like they know how to use them, as even the Lyriq does not look like it was designed to have best in class aerodynamics. This is why I get down on GM for what I call "Lazy" engineering, GM picks a few benchmarks and go from those, but they rarely go for best in class across the platform. This goes back to why I think Mark Reuss should be out, he is the boss of GM product, and I don't think he is getting the most from his engineers and tool box he has to work with. GM does great in this metric, or that metric, but has not shown they can put the whole package together and build a best in class anything (outside of C8). Lyriq no frunk is just engineering laziness, and GM will not get the same mulligan on the Celestiq. Celestiq needs to be perfectly designed and packaged to really show the best of GM, if not, it will just be another embarrassment. I really hope GM hits a home run, but I think old sleepy Mark will fail again to drive the team for absolute "best in class".
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think it's probably just a legacy auto thing. Concept designers come up with a design that they have to try to make efficient. It's totally backwards thinking if the ultimate goal is to focus on efficiency.
Ya, it seems GM has not put their entire design team in the same room, so they don't force the systems engineers to fit in their systems around the customer experience, instead of just filling the large underhood space with junk. Lucid Air is a very well packaged car around the customer experience, Lyriq a much larger car, but less usable space for the customer. It seems Ford is doing this ala Tesla, by hiring Doug Field, they got the guy that led development of the Model 3-Y platform, and giving him the authority at Ford to build a similar team. Ford is for sure moving in the right direction, GM... hmmm... Not sure, but the product they have shown so far it does not appear they are ready to take advantage of all the Ev platform benefits yet. GM has a lead on Ford on infrastructure investments, but if GM does not start designing better EV's Ford will leapfrog them down the road. Design does not win in the younger generation of tech savvy buyers, they want tech, and packaging efficiency. Tesla sends that message loud and clear, they don't look good, but sell like crazy.

BTW, I drove the BMW iX last week, it is a fantastic driving EV, maybe the best driving EV I have tried yet (lifted Taycan like), but oh my the esthetics are such a tragedy. BMW exterior designers really let the carmaker down. That car is disproportionate from nearly every angle, its ugly... Dealer told me though they are getting a lot of initial demand, if driving is your things its one to buy, but will not find a home in my garage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The nice thing about ugly cars is that you don't have to look at it when you are the one driving.
True, its interesting that such a awful looking design could get through. They had an i4 there also, which I sat in, its nice, and looks much better then the iX, but I have no interest in sedans.

BMW is a serious player in EV's now, the iX checks a lot of boxes, and while not as gangly as i3, it's really a poor design effort on the exterior. My thought are BMW faithful will buy iX, but not many others.
 

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Could Celestiq use SES lithium metal cells aka Ultium 2.0? SES is expected to have a low volume production line in Massachusetts and a Chinese facility up and running in late 2023. Their batteries will have about 50% more density so a Lyriq sized pack in a more aerodynamic sedan could achieve 450-500 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Could Celestiq use SES lithium metal cells aka Ultium 2.0? SES is expected to have a low volume production line in Massachusetts and a Chinese facility up and running in late 2023. Their batteries will have about 50% more density so a Lyriq sized pack in a more aerodynamic sedan could achieve 450-500 miles.
I highly, highly doubt anyone has a significantly better cell in production before 2027+++ More likely the +

If Celestiq is going to have long range it needs to be engineered well, and light weight, I doubt both of those.

GM is benchmarking Lucid now, GM engineers might not even know how to realize how far behind they really are.
 
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