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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Rumors about this started circulating a couple days ago, but looks like its Ford's turn with EV blues. Not sure what the recall is yet, but rumored to be something in the High Voltage system.
 

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Ford is claiming they can fix it with an OTA, but I have some doubts about that. The contactors can either open, or weld stuck. Several owners have already had these failures. If it is really "overheating", then I doubt software can fix it. But if it is more of an "arcing" issue due to having the contactors switched when under load, then it could be fixed by software.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ford is claiming they can fix it with an OTA, but I have some doubts about that. The contactors can either open, or weld stuck. Several owners have already had these failures. If it is really "overheating", then I doubt software can fix it. But if it is more of an "arcing" issue due to having the contactors switched when under load, then it could be fixed by software.
Hopefully it is a minor issue. Issuing a recall, and stop sale with no known fix though is not great. Ford is struggling with quality, their 2.7L engine in bronco's dropping valves, and now this.
 

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Hopefully it is a minor issue. Issuing a recall, and stop sale with no known fix though is not great. Ford is struggling with quality, their 2.7L engine in bronco's dropping valves, and now this.
They have a known fix, cars built after May 25 do not have the issue. They are lacking parts right now, which also indicates it is not simply a software fix.
 

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I had not heard that they had a fix, that is good though, hopefully simple...
Unfortunately the contactors are inside the battery pack, so if they need replacement, the battery has to be removed out the bottom of the car. All batteries are made that way, so the 400V or 800V can be isolated from the outside of the battery.
 

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Ford provided the following details for clarification.

"Here are the main details in the recall notice we filed with NHTSA, which should be on their website. Please note it is not a stop sale. Dealer can still sell. They just can’t deliver the vehicle. No different than any other safety recall notice. It is a delivery hold.
On affected vehicles, Direct Current (“DC”) fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat. Overheating may lead to arcing and deformation of the electrical contact surfaces, which can result in a contactor that remains open or a contactor that welds closed. An overheated contactor that opens while driving can result in a loss of motive power, which can increase the risk of an accident.
The remedy for this program is a Secondary On-Board Diagnostic Control Module (SOBDMC) and Battery Energy Control Module (BECM) software update. Ford is anticipated to begin Over-The-Air (OTA) deployment to update the SOBDMC an BECM software for affected vehicles next month. Alternatively, owners will have the option to take their vehicle to a Ford or Lincoln dealer to complete the software update.
There are no open investigations with NHTSA.
This action affects 48,924 vehicles in the U.S."
An update from Ford.
 

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"On affected vehicles, Direct Current (“DC”) fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat."

Translation....we didn't install contactors that can handle the amps necessary for you owners to charge at an almost-decent fast-charging speed and drive your GT-Performance version almost as if it actually was designed for "performance" driving.

If the contactor overheating-related arcing/welding/warping solution is via "software", then Ford isn't addressing the fundamental physical problem. Either undersized or poorly-designed/ fabricated HV power contactors, buried deep in the battery pack. The BECM software fix likely will tell the BECM to throttle down the maximum allowed charging/discharging amperage. So it is likely we'll see some of the recent software-related DC fast-charging speed increases go back down, along with maximum acceleration in "track" mode. As if the Mach-e doesn't already suffer from battery-design-related thermal problems restricting its fast-charging speed and driving performance.

I wonder if the SOBDM update will allow it to detect which vehicles have contactors already physically damaged so Ford can call those vehicles in to the dealer for a $$$ battery pack pull-out and contactor replacement?
 

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"On affected vehicles, Direct Current (“DC”) fast charging and repeated wide open pedal events can cause the high voltage battery main contactors to overheat."

Translation....we didn't install contactors that can handle the amps necessary for you owners to charge at an almost-decent fast-charging speed and drive your GT-Performance version almost as if it actually was designed for "performance" driving.

If the contactor overheating-related arcing/welding/warping solution is via "software", then Ford isn't addressing the fundamental physical problem. Either undersized or poorly-designed/ fabricated HV power contactors, buried deep in the battery pack. The BECM software fix likely will tell the BECM to throttle down the maximum allowed charging/discharging amperage. So it is likely we'll see some of the recent software-related DC fast-charging speed increases go back down, along with maximum acceleration in "track" mode. As if the Mach-e doesn't already suffer from battery-design-related thermal problems restricting its fast-charging speed and driving performance.

I wonder if the SOBDM update will allow it to detect which vehicles have contactors already physically damaged so Ford can call those vehicles in to the dealer for a $$$ battery pack pull-out and contactor replacement?
Contactors are undersized, they will have to be replaced even if the owner hasn't damaged them yet. They are likely getting welded closed, which is a pretty easy/obvious problem to know. But it's also a dangerous one, because you can't disconnect the HV system completely before dropping the pack out to fix it.
 

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Contactors are undersized, they will have to be replaced even if the owner hasn't damaged them yet. They are likely getting welded closed, which is a pretty easy/obvious problem to know. But it's also a dangerous one, because you can't disconnect the HV system completely before dropping the pack out to fix it.
There are contractors on both battery poles, so it takes a dual failure To have the voltage present.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
There are contractors on both battery poles, so it takes a dual failure To have the voltage present.
Mach E also has an explosive contractor disconnect for accidents, like Tesla's do? I forget the name of the supplier that supplies them, but I saw him on a youtube video and he said Tesla and GM (also other OEM's but I was not listening that close) use his system. It's like an airbag, but disconnects battery power in an emergency, and he was saying it works even if there is a dead short down line.
 

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Ford Mustang Mach-E owners who don't want to visit a dealership can choose to wait for the over-the-air update, which should be available in late July or August. The forum also noted that the update will be available for self-updaters using Ford's Diagnostic and Repair System (FDRS). It's important to reiterate that there are no parts involved in the fix. This is simply a software update only.


On June 30, 2022, Mach-E Forum posted an important update related to the recall and software fix. Apparently, the fix may just ensure that the Mach-E doesn't "brick." There may still be a chance that the high voltage battery contactors could overheat, which could lead to a "Service vehicle soon" warning.

The update should allow owners to drive their electric crossover to the dealer in a reduced power mode rather than being stranded with a car that has no power or won't start.
 

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Ford Mustang Mach-E owners who don't want to visit a dealership can choose to wait for the over-the-air update, which should be available in late July or August. The forum also noted that the update will be available for self-updaters using Ford's Diagnostic and Repair System (FDRS). It's important to reiterate that there are no parts involved in the fix. This is simply a software update only.


On June 30, 2022, Mach-E Forum posted an important update related to the recall and software fix. Apparently, the fix may just ensure that the Mach-E doesn't "brick." There may still be a chance that the high voltage battery contactors could overheat, which could lead to a "Service vehicle soon" warning.

The update should allow owners to drive their electric crossover to the dealer in a reduced power mode rather than being stranded with a car that has no power or won't start.
One guy got the update, went on a trip a few days later, and got the failure. He limped it to a dealer without turning it off. And this was the second contractor failure on his car.
 

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One guy got the update, went on a trip a few days later, and got the failure. He limped it to a dealer without turning it off. And this was the second contractor failure on his car.
certainly not a good sign. If the issue is this common now, and it also happens to the Lightning in similar ratio, it’s going to become something negative Ford EVs are known for.
 

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certainly not a good sign. If the issue is this common now, and it also happens to the Lightning in similar ratio, it’s going to become something negative Ford EVs are known for.
The failure seems to occur more frequently on the higher powered GT versions, which was the case for this guy. But other lower power models have had the failure also. Still less than 1% of all the Mach Es. Of course the number of Bolt fires was also very low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The failure seems to occur more frequently on the higher powered GT versions, which was the case for this guy. But other lower power models have had the failure also. Still less than 1% of all the Mach Es. Of course the number of Bolt fires was also very low.
Bolt fires about 1 in 10K, and outside of a 6 month production window in 2019 models closer to 1 in 20K, Tesla model S and X have statistically higher fire probability. What do you think the accepted fire probability should be for EV's?
 
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