Latest SUV Teaser

Tom E-Tron · 2021-04-02

Here is the latest SUV Teaser What are others expecting on the SUV? I expect First Edition SUV $118K, Available Mid 2022, similar specs to SUT

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Tom E-Tron

Discussion Starter · #21 · Apr 4, 2021

MCH said:
With the SUV it appears GM is going after the Bronco and Jeep Wrangler "two row seat" market, instead of the Tahoe or Suburban "three row seat" market. I bet they will produce an electric Suburban at some point, but they have nothing that competes with the Wrangler - until now. So they are entering that market segment with a BEV, instead of an ICE vehicle like Ford is doing. I think it is very smart of them.

I kind of like a lot of information early, as long as they don't follow the Tesla process of promising something that never comes - or comes much later than promised.

The range factor is significant. It would have been wise IMO to squeeze the biggest battery into the SUV, but then it would have to be longer (as you said). And while I agree that a third row is a minimal impact on range from a weight perspective, if you want the third row to fold flat, there might not be room over the battery to make it work. Rivian had to take out some of the battery to get the third row to fold flat. They originally planned to offer the longest range SUV as a two row model only, but I saw a lot of complaints on the forums about that. So now Rivian's longest range SUV will have a smaller battery than the truck, and a third row of seats. People are complaining about that also, but not as much. At least from what I can tell.

So I think GM has the same issue - either reduce the battery to 16 cells (for example) to make room for the third row, or don't put in a third row. Since they appear to be building a Wrangler competitor, the third row is not really needed anyway, so the decision is easy.

I agree with most of that. GM clearly went one direction, but I think missed the mark for the families I know that would be interested. We are a small sample size, and I may be wrong, but at the price (slightly higher than the SUT per like spec, I think they missed the mark) Yes, there is a big Caddy EV in process sometime in the future, and it will have a foldable 3 row. If you look at 2021 Yukon the 3rd row folds flat on top of the interior floor, not below into the frame rails, and the rear cargo floor is higher to clear the rear suspension (so battery length will not matter effect foldability of the 3rd row, what does affect it is wheelbase, the third row has to set in the upright position over the rear axle and then fold down and forward into the 3rd row foot space to stow).

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MCH

· #22 · Apr 5, 2021

Tom E-Tron said:
I agree with most of that. GM clearly went one direction, but I think missed the mark for the families I know that would be interested. We are a small sample size, and I may be wrong, but at the price (slightly higher than the SUT per like spec, I think they missed the mark) Yes, there is a big Caddy EV in process sometime in the future, and it will have a foldable 3 row. If you look at 2021 Yukon the 3rd row folds flat on top of the interior floor, not below into the frame rails, and the rear cargo floor is higher to clear the rear suspension (so battery length will not matter effect foldability of the 3rd row, what does affect it is wheelbase, the third row has to set in the upright position over the rear axle and then fold down and forward into the 3rd row foot space to stow).

Good points. I also question the need to fold flat vs. removable third row seats. In my use case, I would rather have the ability to remove the seats if I needed a truly flat interior, and folding but not flat would be OK with me. However, most people probably would never want to remove the seats and they would get a lots of complaints about a space that is not flat. Assuming a shorter wheelbase instead of a longer one, because as you pointed out a longer wheelbase could fold flat without interfering with the battery. A taller vehicle would help as well, I think. The rear of the SUV seems to taper down some, which reduces room for heads. On the other hand, it looks great the way they designed it.

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MCH

· #23 · Apr 5, 2021

Looking at the picture @BahamaTodd posted, it seems like you could squeeze a small third row in that is designed to fold flat. Not sure what is under that black plastic map looking thing, but I bet it is just more storage. We know the spare tire is not there anyway.

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Tom E-Tron

Discussion Starter · #24 · Apr 5, 2021

MCH said:
Good points. I also question the need to fold flat vs. removable third row seats. In my use case, I would rather have the ability to remove the seats if I needed a truly flat interior, and folding but not flat would be OK with me. However, most people probably would never want to remove the seats and they would get a lots of complaints about a space that is not flat. Assuming a shorter wheelbase instead of a longer one, because as you pointed out a longer wheelbase could fold flat without interfering with the battery. A taller vehicle would help as well, I think. The rear of the SUV seems to taper down some, which reduces room for heads. On the other hand, it looks great the way they designed it.

I previously owned a Lexus LX470 which had a removable 3rd row, and actually that was a bad idea. The seats were heavy and hard to remove and reinstall (pinched fingers, and swear words were common on re-install). The other thing was the mechanism which attached them was greased, and when taking them in and out often stained the light colored interior carpet.

I test drove a new Escalade recently, and was quite impressed with the 3rd row setup, its the first 3rd row I would not mind sitting in for a long trip. The rear captains chairs folded and gave great ingress/egress, I think this in an EV form would be the jackpot for many larger families.

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Tom E-Tron

Discussion Starter · #25 · Apr 5, 2021

MCH said:
Looking at the picture @BahamaTodd posted, it seems like you could squeeze a small third row in that is designed to fold flat. Not sure what is under that black plastic map looking thing, but I bet it is just more storage. We know the spare tire is not there anyway.

View attachment 705

That is a good shot to show how little room is behind the second row. This Hummer SUV is short in cab length, not designed to be a family hauler. The Escalade has almost that much length behind the 3rd row, and the long wheelbase version Escalade has more space behind the 3rd row. I hope when GM brings out the EV escalade they use the Hummers rear steering to make it more maneuverable in parking lots.

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Bboozer1

· #26 · Apr 6, 2021

I agree with Tom Etron.... We had a Lexus Gx470 with the the removable seats... They would also fold up, but mad blind spots and reduced cargo space. I removed them when we 1st got it home and put them in garbage bags to keep them dust free... 9 years later when we sold the car I put them back in... And they did take up a lot of space too

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Tom E-Tron

Discussion Starter · #27 · Apr 6, 2021

Bboozer1 said:
I agree with Tom Etron.... We had a Lexus Gx470 with the the removable seats... They would also fold up, but mad blind spots and reduced cargo space. I removed them when we 1st got it home and put them in garbage bags to keep them dust free... 9 years later when we sold the car I put them back in... And they did take up a lot of space too

Sounds quite familiar. I wonder if GX and LX had the same seats?

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MCH

· #28 · Apr 6, 2021

Tom E-Tron said:
That is a good shot to show how little room is behind the second row.

I wonder if that angle makes the space look smaller than it really is. This view makes it look like there is plenty of room for a third row of seats. There would not be much space behind the third row, but that would be fine for most people I think.

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Tom E-Tron

Discussion Starter · #29 · Apr 6, 2021

MCH said:
I wonder if that angle makes the space look smaller than it really is. This view makes it look like there is plenty of room for a third row of seats. There would not be much space behind the third row, but that would be fine for most people I think.

View attachment 720
View attachment 721

It's the floor space that will be a problem for the 3 row, to make 3 rows work the wheelbase has to be extended. That floor is right on top of some of the suspension components No way to hollow out for footwells with this short wheelbase.

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MCH

· #30 · Apr 8, 2021

Tom E-Tron said:
It's the floor space that will be a problem for the 3 row, to make 3 rows work the wheelbase has to be extended. That floor is right on top of some of the suspension components No way to hollow out for footwells with this short wheelbase.

That is reasonable, but I would argue that a wheelbase of that dimension is enough to squeeze three rows of seats in. One of the videos I watched said the Hummer SUV wheelbase is a little bit longer than the Tahoe. If the Tahoe can have three rows, why not the Hummer SUV? Maybe it does go back to the battery size, but still, creative design I bet could fit another row in. I copied this from a Rivian forum: wheelbase: R1S 121'' Hummer SUV 127'' . The Rivian R1S has three rows of seats. Why do we think the longer wheelbase Hummer cannot, when the Rivian R1S has a shorter wheelbase?

On a side note, some Tesla Model S sedans have rear facing third row seats. And the Hummer cannot even do that? Maybe rear facing seats is a bad idea, but still. It can be done I think.

The three row seat thing is a big deal. Not for me, but for many others. It seems the Hummer designers should consider how to fit another row in, because I think they will get a higher sales volume if they are successful.

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bufflinks

· #31 · Apr 8, 2021

I agree and that is why I canceled my Edition 1 SUV reservation and kept my Edition 1 truck reservation, even though an SUV with 3 rows would have been ideal for my family (to accommodate extended family and friends). I will take the earlier delivery and extra range with all the bells and whistles....

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Tom E-Tron

Discussion Starter · #32 · Apr 8, 2021

MCH said:
That is reasonable, but I would argue that a wheelbase of that dimension is enough to squeeze three rows of seats in. One of the videos I watched said the Hummer SUV wheelbase is a little bit longer than the Tahoe. If the Tahoe can have three rows, why not the Hummer SUV? Maybe it does go back to the battery size, but still, creative design I bet could fit another row in. I copied this from a Rivian forum: wheelbase: R1S 121'' Hummer SUV 127'' . The Rivian R1S has three rows of seats. Why do we think the longer wheelbase Hummer cannot, when the Rivian R1S has a shorter wheelbase?

On a side note, some Tesla Model S sedans have rear facing third row seats. And the Hummer cannot even do that? Maybe rear facing seats is a bad idea, but still. It can be done I think.

The three row seat thing is a big deal. Not for me, but for many others. It seems the Hummer designers should consider how to fit another row in, because I think they will get a higher sales volume if they are successful.

Look again at the side view of the Hummer EV, and compare to Tahoe, Tahoe has the front axle back further (not worried about approach angle in Tahoe), Tahoe front axle centerline to driver centerline is also much shorter than on the Hummer EV. Hummer EV was architected from the start to be a killer off roader, and have front storage space for the removable roof panels. I assure you, 3 rows with fold flat is not possible in the Hummer SUV interior, they could put in a removable 3rd row, but then foot and head room will be a problem because they will be set over the rear suspension which is much higher than the interior floor level.

If you look at the upcoming Silverado EV front clip (pic attached), that is more configured like Tahoe (front axle center to driver row center), and Tahoe EV model of that will have 3 row interior