[Tom E-Tron]

There are certainly lessons to be learned from the Tesla model. Although both of our Teslas have required weeks of post-delivery repairs so they're also not perfect and their crazy variable pricing is also not a great model.

Ya, Tesla QC needs work, but that has nothing to do with the sales and delivery model. Rivian's get delivered in pretty good shape, far less quality issues than early tesla's

 

[Tom E-Tron]

If they raised the MSRP to the current market value, that is based on a tiny little amount of produced trucks, it wouldn't be an accurate price to keep very long. They would definitely get a bad rap and they would shrink their addressable sales market to sale to into just a small % of the current population that has reservations. They are better off selling in volume than selling a small amount to the very rich (by standards that can afford the EV1).

Exactly.. Market value when your comparable is 3 Hummers sold on C and B when only 100 have been delivered is a bogus number. In a month the market value will be lower, 2 months even lower, and when production meets demand used value will be below MSRP. Dealers are just robbing people right now, trying to get whatever they can because there is a shortage of supply. It's a temporary market value, not the real market value.

 

[skiborsy]

Ya, Tesla QC needs work, but that has nothing to do with the sales and delivery model. Rivian's get delivered in pretty good shape, far less quality issues than early tesla's

Our latest X was ordered in Feb. 21 and finally delivered December 30 with no contact or updates between those two points (and original ETA of April). And it was delivered with sticky "sign here" tabs where they knew things were messed up (scratched trim, thin paint) and then I had to reach out to have those issues corrected, waiting 1.5 months for their next available appt. That said, it's not necessarily worse than our most recent Ford which arrived with chipped paint on 3 of the 4 doors (and one tiny dent) and a scratched wheel. Wheel trim is being replaced and the best they have for me is touch up paint for the doors...

 

[ofaridi32]

Just like EV's will be mainstream eventually compared to ICE.. i think the middleman dealer sales concept will too. Tesla has disrupted the market in a good way for consumers... I've had multiple Tesla's... The direct to customer sales is the best. Only since the Hummer is a "niche" vehicle am I willing to put up with the dealer experience. And if they ask for too much of a markup... I'll go back to Tesla, it's not worth the headache to flip it for me unless it makes $100k over... Which may not last much longer.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Just like EV's will be mainstream eventually compared to ICE.. i think the middleman dealer sales concept will too. Tesla has disrupted the market in a good way for consumers... I've had multiple Tesla's... The direct to customer sales is the best. Only since the Hummer is a "niche" vehicle am I willing to put up with the dealer experience. And if they ask for too much of a markup... I'll go back to Tesla, it's not worth the headache to flip it for me unless it makes $100k over... Which may not last much longer.

Exactly, the double returns might be over already, watching one on C & B now...

2022 GMC Hummer EV Pickup Edition 1 - 1,000 Horsepower, Tri-Motor AWD, Removable Roof Panels, Illumination Package

This 2022 GMC Hummer EV Pickup Edition 1 is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends May 13 2022.

carsandbids.com

 

[StillHummer]

hehe not a bad thing and totally agree, you can take delivery and sell the next day, more power to ya for the $.

BUT we can be a little peeves having to wait and watch for ours that am looking to keep hehehe.

best luck with sell though.

Fair enough lol, I get that feeling 100%.

I just feel like these posts embolden dealers to push for markups. $100 reservations are turning into lottery tickets and the dealers must question the process. I actually wish GM enforced a 6 month right of first refusal for the Hummer, as it would significantly cut down on speculators and order conversions resulting in more deliveries to those further down the reservation list intending to keep it.

Also, this is another one that probably belongs in the classifieds. You really trying to tell me that the seller hasn't heard of Cars and Bids or BaT?

I don't agree with you there. There's going to be those dealerships that see the anger towards the markups, and they'll sell for MSRP, or right around there. And they'll sell way more of them then most of the dealers with the crazy mark ups. Will some dealers get away with $260k Hummers because someone wealthy enough to afford that sees the ad? Sure, but that's how the free market goes. But if you think that a post on a forum is the thing that will be the catalyst for dealers marking up Hummers...you're sadly mistaken.

Also, there's no issue with someone trying to sell their Hummer here, happens on every car forum known to man. Frankly, I appreciate them coming here first, it offers some validity to us that we're the only game in town (or online, but I digress) when it comes to all-things Hummer EV info, questions and community. You buy a Hummer, you come here. We've actually been recommended by the team that built the truck to prospective owners. And if they want to sell their car here, then sell away, my friend.

I get the frustration totally, but getting angry at someone selling their Hummer right after delivery doesn't solve anything, or change anything for that matter. Better off to accept that this is what happens today with white-hot automotive products.

 

[Macadoo]

I’m not angry at the OP, but I’m frustrated with GMs process and believe there is a better way, along with many other forum members. Angry wasn’t really the right reaction, but frustrated is not an option. I also suggested this should be in the classified section and see it has now been moved. I made a credible offer but haven’t heard back.

I should add that lots of good and interesting discussion came out of the post, so that a positive.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Fair enough lol, I get that feeling 100%.


I don't agree with you there. There's going to be those dealerships that see the anger towards the markups, and they'll sell for MSRP, or right around there. And they'll sell way more of them then most of the dealers with the crazy mark ups. Will some dealers get away with $260k Hummers because someone wealthy enough to afford that sees the ad? Sure, but that's how the free market goes. But if you think that a post on a forum is the thing that will be the catalyst for dealers marking up Hummers...you're sadly mistaken.

Also, there's no issue with someone trying to sell their Hummer here, happens on every car forum known to man. Frankly, I appreciate them coming here first, it offers some validity to us that we're the only game in town (or online, but I digress) when it comes to all-things Hummer EV info, questions and community. You buy a Hummer, you come here. We've actually been recommended by the team that built the truck to prospective owners. And if they want to sell their car here, then sell away, my friend.

I get the frustration totally, but getting angry at someone selling their Hummer right after delivery doesn't solve anything, or change anything for that matter. Better off to accept that this is what happens today with white-hot automotive products.

I do not understand @travwill and his frustration, if the people in front of him in line sell their Hummers, that does not change his place in line or when he gets his truck, right? Its not like GM is saying let's hold back @travwill truck while these other people flip theirs. GM is building and moving out the trucks as fast as they can, if you are frustrated it should be with GM's website that was crashing when orders were placed, and therefore manipulating the order of which reservations were taken, that was truly frustrating. Or you could be frustrated that GM opened up orders for some VIP's before the public was allowed to order, but sorry fellow, that is life on any product. VIP's always get benefits.

I feel bad being so harsh on dealers because I think @BigJonEV works for one of the good ones that does business in a fair manner, and likely does offer some value to the customer, but generally dealers are not that way, and when people wander to their local dealer to buy a car, they get ripped off one way or another. I think direct sales is a better way to go for a multitude reasons, and eventually the legacy companies will have to come around on this, or dealership franchise contracts will have to be updated with better language around sales and pricing. Dealerships can make good money selling EV's but they have to change their operations as well, one price, no negotiation, no sales manger/salesman back and forth, here is the price, take it or leave it.

 

[travwill]

I do not understand @travwill and his frustration, if the people in front of him in line sell their Hummers, that does not change his place in line or when he gets his truck, right? Its not like GM is saying let's hold back @travwill truck while these other people flip theirs. GM is building and moving out the trucks as fast as they can, if you are frustrated it should be with GM's website that was crashing when orders were placed, and therefore manipulating the order of which reservations were taken, that was truly frustrating. Or you could be frustrated that GM opened up orders for some VIP's before the public was allowed to order, but sorry fellow, that is life on any product. VIP's always get benefits.

I feel bad being so harsh on dealers because I think @BigJonEV works for one of the good ones that does business in a fair manner, and likely does offer some value to the customer, but generally dealers are not that way, and when people wander to their local dealer to buy a car, they get ripped off one way or another. I think direct sales is a better way to go for a multitude reasons, and eventually the legacy companies will have to come around on this, or dealership franchise contracts will have to be updated with better language around sales and pricing. Dealerships can make good money selling EV's but they have to change their operations as well, one price, no negotiation, no sales manger/salesman back and forth, here is the price, take it or leave it.

More of a view of these buyers are getting to skip in line ahead of us versus wait their turn of a different model, just because they slip someone in line more $$$ to get out of line and take their place. That analogy help ya? Yes that is frustrating, but its a free market.

 

[BigJonEV]

I do not understand @travwill and his frustration, if the people in front of him in line sell their Hummers, that does not change his place in line or when he gets his truck, right? Its not like GM is saying let's hold back @travwill truck while these other people flip theirs. GM is building and moving out the trucks as fast as they can, if you are frustrated it should be with GM's website that was crashing when orders were placed, and therefore manipulating the order of which reservations were taken, that was truly frustrating. Or you could be frustrated that GM opened up orders for some VIP's before the public was allowed to order, but sorry fellow, that is life on any product. VIP's always get benefits.

I feel bad being so harsh on dealers because I think @BigJonEV works for one of the good ones that does business in a fair manner, and likely does offer some value to the customer, but generally dealers are not that way, and when people wander to their local dealer to buy a car, they get ripped off one way or another. I think direct sales is a better way to go for a multitude reasons, and eventually the legacy companies will have to come around on this, or dealership franchise contracts will have to be updated with better language around sales and pricing. Dealerships can make good money selling EV's but they have to change their operations as well, one price, no negotiation, no sales manger/salesman back and forth, here is the price, take it or leave it.

To be fair @Tom E-Tron dealerships have brought this on ourselves for decades. We earned distrust by using devious sales tactics that still haven't ended either for some. I hear what people are saying about Direct Sales and it might be another case of start something on the coasts and it moving inland. However, here even with no cars on the lot and telling people you almost have to order to make sure you get a car people still want to touch, see, smell the new car. I've told hundreds of people if they wait for this to show up on the lot to see it they will not get it. We take so many deposits on inbound units that the chances of inventory showing up not sold is few and far between. I believe there are still enough people out there that want to go to the dealership and want to see all of their options that the dealer model is far from dead for most major manufacturers.

What I will say on price as you mentioned, the best thing to come out of this scarcity is little to no negotiations. People are so happy that we even have a car they want, when you say here is the price, it's MSRP nothing less and nothing more, they take it. We have very little back and forth here and many 1st pencil closes. There just isn't anything to it anymore. They either ordered it or looked everywhere and we have the only one. I hope this stays around, because it honestly seems more refreshing to the customers as well. Been many more pleasant experiences than I ever had going back and forth with people.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

More of a view of these buyers are getting to skip in line ahead of us versus wait their turn of a different model, just because they slip someone in line more $$$ to get out of line and take their place. That analogy help ya? Yes that is frustrating, but its a free market.

Ya, but I think many people are selling because of the opportunity, not because they do not want the Hummer, many will re order after they sell. Now, Brian Mello who works at a GMC dealer and has a channel on You tube said he ordered intending to flip... thats your guy to be frustrated with, not the guys like @Dark-Fx who just took advantage of an opportunity to make some money, and will likely re-order.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

To be fair @Tom E-Tron dealerships have brought this on ourselves for decades. We earned distrust by using devious sales tactics that still haven't ended either for some. I hear what people are saying about Direct Sales and it might be another case of start something on the coasts and it moving inland. However, here even with no cars on the lot and telling people you almost have to order to make sure you get a car people still want to touch, see, smell the new car. I've told hundreds of people if they wait for this to show up on the lot to see it they will not get it. We take so many deposits on inbound units that the chances of inventory showing up not sold is few and far between. I believe there are still enough people out there that want to go to the dealership and want to see all of their options that the dealer model is far from dead for most major manufacturers.

What I will say on price as you mentioned, the best thing to come out of this scarcity is little to no negotiations. People are so happy that we even have a car they want, when you say here is the price, it's MSRP nothing less and nothing more, they take it. We have very little back and forth here and many 1st pencil closes. There just isn't anything to it anymore. They either ordered it or looked everywhere and we have the only one. I hope this stays around, because it honestly seems more refreshing to the customers as well. Been many more pleasant experiences than I ever had going back and forth with people.

Eventually Dealers should do direct sales, everyone pays MSRP, and no chiseling, and the dealership can cut down some staff and save cost if all deals are done on a website.

We are stuck in this short supply for a while, I see it until 2024 at least

 

[BigJonEV]

We are 100% in this for awhile. It will be at least 2024 before it feels normal again.

 

[INgolfer]

if the fed bumps rates enough and gas keeps going higher it may slow down car sales enough to create some inventory.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

if the fed bumps rates enough and gas keeps going higher it may slow down car sales enough to create some inventory.

I don't think so... the demand is so far out in front of supply, and I see more supply problems incoming.

 

[BigJonEV]

I don't think so... the demand is so far out in front of supply, and I see more supply problems incoming.

Exactly. I was just talking to someone about this. This is a manufacturing and supply issue. I have seen higher gas prices and it only swayed people to think slightly different about what they were buying instead of not buying at all. Higher gas prices mean nothing to me really. I'm going to start getting asked more about crossover SUV's than Yukons probably, but that's it. It's the supply chain that's killing us.

 

[Msv5010]

Exactly. I was just talking to someone about this. This is a manufacturing and supply issue. I have seen higher gas prices and it only swayed people to think slightly different about what they were buying instead of not buying at all. Higher gas prices mean nothing to me really. I'm going to start getting asked more about crossover SUV's than Yukons probably, but that's it. It's the supply chain that's killing us.

I’m in process of trading in my car for a used Model S because I no longer feel like I can justify spending over $5 on gas while getting <15 mpg with my daily driver. Before looking at used Teslas, I looked at new Teslas, the BMW i4, Mach-Es, etc., but in each case the wait was too long for my purposes (not to mention the horrendous dealership experiences I had with the i4). Three of my neighbors have also traded in ICE vehicles for EVs in the last two months (Model 3, Mach-E, and E-Tron). In other words, gas prices have undoubtedly increased demand where I live and the savings on fuel are outweighing the cost from increases in interest rates.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

I’m in process of trading in my car for a used Model S because I no longer feel like I can justify spending over $5 on gas while getting <15 mpg with my daily driver. Before looking at used Teslas, I looked at new Teslas, the BMW i4, Mach-Es, etc., but in each case the wait was too long for my purposes (not to mention the horrendous dealership experiences I had with the i4). Three of my neighbors have also traded in ICE vehicles for EVs in the last two months (Model 3, Mach-E, and E-Tron). In other words, gas prices have undoubtedly increased demand where I live and the savings on fuel are outweighing the cost from increases in interest rates.

You have to drive a lot of miles to justify a used model S trade, high gas price will not be forever, and an older model S is a money pit.

 

[Dark-Fx]

You have to drive a lot of miles to justify a used model S trade, high gas price will not be forever, and an older model S is a money pit.

It'll be higher.

 

[Msv5010]

It'll be higher.

It’s a 2018 with 35k miles that I’ll be driving for a year or so until my Hummer comes. Not all that worried about it.