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How is GM able to make huge batteries and still keep the price around/under 100k?

2K views 39 replies 10 participants last post by  Nebula1701 
#1 ·
Tesla Model X has a 100kw battery and the price is 120k+ for starting. Rivian is 135kwh and costs $84k with the standard dual motor. The HUMMER EV SUV is probably 180kw or more and is around 80-110k but has an extra full spare wheel, rear wheel steering, 22 inch rims, 19.2kw onboard charger, and a mighty frame. Is GM losing money on these vehicles in order to maintain market dominance and eventually turn a profit a decade down the road?
 
#6 ·
In the US - yes, Tesla is still making good margin. In China they've had to retreat/cut prices, and their margins are being crushed. A little less so in Europe, but in the absence of a signifcant price cut like in China, they're losing marketshare to VW.
 
#11 ·
They've completely frozen Hummer EV production with no indication as to when it will start back up. Lyriq is in active production and is scaling up. Hummer production, when restarted, will most likely be a trickle. In the meantime, they're performing trial Silverado EV manufacturing at F0.

Let's get right to the heart of it - what is your prediction for Hummer EV sales in Q1? GM doesn't disclose production of individual models like Tesla does and we know they're sitting on the supposed 1000 units of inventory they built of the Hummer EV in November. Are those units even sellable?

Here's my number - they will sell 500 Hummers in Q1, the vast majority of which were built in 2022. They will sell more Lyriqs in Q1, probably around 700. I would guess that Lyriq will begin to eclipse the Hummer EV in Q2.

If I'm wrong and the numbers come in lower, there is no way GM is hitting their EV sales targets they've set forth for both 2023 and 2024.
 
#13 ·
They've completely frozen Hummer EV production with no indication as to when it will start back up. Lyriq is in active production and is scaling up. Hummer production, when restarted, will most likely be a trickle. In the meantime, they're performing trial Silverado EV manufacturing at F0.

Let's get right to the heart of it - what is your prediction for Hummer EV sales in Q1? GM doesn't disclose production of individual models like Tesla does and we know they're sitting on the supposed 1000 units of inventory they built of the Hummer EV in November. Are those units even sellable?

Here's my number - they will sell 1700 Hummers in Q1, the vast majority of which were built in 2022. They will sell more Lyriqs in Q1, probably around 2000. I would guess that Lyriq will begin to eclipse the Hummer EV in Q2.
WRONG on most counts, Factory Zero is restarting Hummer soon at the highest rate so far, Factory Zero is building prototype SilveradoEV, still no VIN so they will all get recycled, I expect to see the captured fleet Silverado models start in Feb-March timeframe, customer models after that. I will be surprised to see any SilveradoEV WT go to a customer before May-June timeframe, which is Spring 2023.

Lyriq and Hummer have both been on stop sale, with different issues....

Everything you say is speculation, AKA keyboard warrior, no actual knowledge. Hummer and Lyriq may have very low Q1 numbers if the stop sale is not lifted soon, but that has nothing to do with production, production will continue.

GM does not talk about production, only sales. I can tell you though, there are still a lot of built shy vehicles in Flint and other places
 
#21 ·
Bill, this guy is an idiot.... Everything he says is wrong (or pure speculation), like where he said they are starting with high spec Lyriq and Silverado E, wrong on both counts, Lyriq started with the base model RWD, and Silverado E is starting with the WT (Work Truck) model, Higher end versions of both models are coming later.
 
#18 ·
Grow up... GM not faking anything, except in your pea brain. GM stock price rising, even with low Q4 Hummer and LYRIQ deliveries announced... So to your point, low deliveries boost stock price?

GM stock is rising, because GM dominated key segments in 2022, Sold the most Full Sized Trucks, and absolutely dominated Full Sized SUV's with 70%+ marketshare, those are the 2 most profitable segments GM participates in, and they won in both, therefore stock has risen.
 
#19 ·
Lotta talk for a guy who can't put pen to paper for delivery numbers for two quarters between two models to settle who is right about something. You pan yourself off as some insider but I can smell BS when I read it.

2023-Q1 Deliveries2023-Q2 Deliveries
Hummer EV5001200
Lyriq7001700
 
#22 ·
The stock hasn't done anything in five years -

View attachment 3847
GM stock has risen since Q4 numbers were announced, even with low sales of Hummer and Lyriq, it was just another point you had wrong...

GM stock set all time highs last year in early January, with only 1 Hummer delivered. In case you have not noticed, there are Macro events placing pressure on all auto stocks in the last year. In that time, Tesla down, way more than GM, even though their sales are up. Elon Musk the first person in history to lose $200B of net worth
 
#23 · (Edited)
Long-term trends coming to roost and being reflected in recent pricing as well. Demand for GM's EVs is currently (and literally) insatiable. Consumer research into Tesla's brand image and enthusiasm has demand for their cars in decline and dropping off a cliff when current orders are satisfied in 6-9 months. The Model 3/Y did great when you didn't have the Ioniq 5, Mach E, Kia EV6, VW ID4, etc. There are a LOT of attractive alternatives already here and on the way. I said it in the other thread. There's nothing really "new" on Tesla's radar, they've just been iterating on the same cars while their competition is already showing off the next half decade of new product. The Cybertruck is vaporware so far. They have a barely functioning prototype they keep rolling out to go viral on social media every once in a while. There hasn't been hide nor hair of the Roadster. Next-gen S, 3, X, and Y models are 5+ years or more away. They're treading water while everyone else is surfing. Once GM and others get some traction it's going to be ever uglier for Tesla. You'll have better built cars with near tech parity at competitive pricing. GM is just trying to get over some speed bumps and we're all impatient, especially me.
 
#24 ·
GM has probably been smart to slow the rollout of the Ultium EVs. Better to fix issues on fewer vehicles, rather than running up warranty costs. Ford has rolled out their EVs faster, but at a significant cost:

 
#39 · (Edited)
Ahem, my prediction of Lyriq deliveries eclipsing Hummer EV deliveries in 2023 Q1 is trending towards becoming reality - How is GM able to make huge batteries and still keep the...

The supposed Insider was the one who was wrong - How is GM able to make huge batteries and still keep the...

Here's a prediction to clarify the Silverado EV point - the Silverado EV will outsell the Hummer EV for total 2023 deliveries. The per unit economics (profit) are higher for the Silverado EV than the Hummer EV (duh), hence they are allocating more batteries/production time @ Hamtramck for the Silverado EV.

Prediction - Bolt (shouldn't even really count, but whatever), Lyriq, Silverado, Hummer - highest to lowest 2023 EV deliveries. If you subtract the Bolt, I'll go with a combined 40K deliveries amongst the other three models for all of 2023.

The Blazer and Equinox will sell, combined, less than 500 units in 2023.
 
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