[Tom E-Tron]

The folks at GM have really been putting the Hummer through its paces. Look at the body damage on this test truck.

GMC Hummer EV Pickup With Body Damage: Photo Gallery

That won't buff out.

gmauthority.com

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That one was shown in the Movie, it did not do very well off road, with only 12" of ground clearance it got stuck in a place the Rivian would likely drive right through, and the Hummer wadded up a tie rod, and was broken down. It looks like a big old pig on the trail, not the nimble look of the Rivian R1T.

 

[theflew]

That one was shown in the Movie, it did not do very well off road, with only 12" of ground clearance it got stuck in a place the Rivian would likely drive right through, and the Hummer wadded up a tie rod, and was broken down. It looks like a big old pig on the trail, not the nimble look of the Rivian R1T.

Rivian is a nice truck. Small, but nice. Hopefully, they make it as a startup. There is no guarantee. Ford is going to dump the stock as soon as possible and has no plans to use its platform. And Amazon plans on using additional vendors to fulfill its needs. Rivian will soon be in a weird position of having the Lightning E and Silverado EV as the work EV trucks. And the Hummer EV as the status truck. Rivian might be able to carve the adventure truck market to themselves, but that's going to be fairly limited at this point. If I was them I would be selling as many R1S as possible. That's going to be the hot seller.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Rivian is a nice truck. Small, but nice. Hopefully, they make it as a startup. There is no guarantee. Ford is going to dump the stock as soon as possible and has no plans to use its platform. And Amazon plans on using additional vendors to fulfill its needs. Rivian will soon be in a weird position of having the Lightning E and Silverado EV as the work EV trucks. And the Hummer EV as the status truck. Rivian might be able to carve the adventure truck market to themselves, but that's going to be fairly limited at this point. If I was them I would be selling as many R1S as possible. That's going to be the hot seller.

Very true, Rivian may or may not make it, and has their toughest days ahead, but they engineered a better off roader then GM, and low and behold its better on road too, tows more, hauls more, etc. They not only beat GM to production but came with a better mousetrap. R1S is their better product (the one I ordered) GM basically saw Rivian's business plan when Rivian was looking for investors, and then tried to copy it with Hummer and Brightdrop. Look at the dates when Rivian jumped over to Ford, and Mary launched the Hummer and BrightDrop, only 2 weeks apart. Hmmm...

Silverado E looks like it will suffer from many of the same faults at Hummer, vastly overweight, low payload and tow ratings. GM is going at the problems all wrong, big battery to compensate for extremely poor efficiency (opposite of Tesla's strategy), Silverado should be better as it will have lower aerodynamic drag, and rolling resistance, but still too big for its capabilities. R1T still more payload and towing. Maybe GM will do better on the Silverado, but the Hummer is not a good sign. Its a fatty, not only in weight, but in packaging, look at the distance from the floor to the skid plate, too much wasted area compared to Rivian.

Lightning is not bad, but expensive for what you get in the higher trims. I like GM strategy better then Fords, but both are easy targets for free thinking start ups like Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid, and then you have the real threat which will come from Xpeng, BYD, and other very hungry overseas companies.

 

[theflew]

Very true, Rivian may or may not make it, and has their toughest days ahead, but they engineered a better off roader then GM, and low and behold its better on road too, tows more, hauls more, etc. They not only beat GM to production but came with a better mousetrap. R1S is their better product (the one I ordered) GM basically saw Rivian's business plan when Rivian was looking for investors, and then tried to copy it with Hummer and Brightdrop. Look at the dates when Rivian jumped over to Ford, and Mary launched the Hummer and BrightDrop, only 2 weeks apart. Hmmm...

Silverado E looks like it will suffer from many of the same faults at Hummer, vastly overweight, low payload and tow ratings. GM is going at the problems all wrong, big battery to compensate for extremely poor efficiency (opposite of Tesla's strategy), Silverado should be better as it will have lower aerodynamic drag, and rolling resistance, but still too big for its capabilities. R1T still more payload and towing. Maybe GM will do better on the Silverado, but the Hummer is not a good sign. Its a fatty, not only in weight, but in packaging, look at the distance from the floor to the skid plate, too much wasted area compared to Rivian.

Lightning is not bad, but expensive for what you get in the higher trims. I like GM strategy better then Fords, but both are easy targets for free thinking start ups like Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid, and then you have the real threat which will come from Xpeng, BYD, and other very hungry overseas companies.

The R1T has more payload ability, but a small bed. The R1T has more towing ability but a short distance. So Rivian might have made the best jack of all trades truck, but lackluster appearance. When you look at the Rivian R1T and Hummer EV side by side the Rivian doesn't inspire you. Most of these trucks will not be used for their built purposes. So if I'm not a reservation holder and I want to spend $100k on a truck. I know where my money would go. That's not taking anything from Rivian. They designed the hell out of a truck but have no real target market to sell them in volumes. GM would love to sell a combination of 25k Hummer EV and SUVs a year because they have the more realistic Silverado and Sierra EVs to sell in volume that doesn't have to have the crazy offroad capability. And what appears to be more than a handful of CUV/SUV to cater to different segments.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

The R1T has more payload ability, but a small bed. The R1T has more towing ability but a short distance. So Rivian might have made the best jack of all trades truck, but lackluster appearance. When you look at the Rivian R1T and Hummer EV side by side the Rivian doesn't inspire you. Most of these trucks will not be used for their built purposes. So if I'm not a reservation holder and I want to spend $100k on a truck. I know where my money would go. That's not taking anything from Rivian. They designed the hell out of a truck but have no real target market to sell them in volumes. GM would love to sell a combination of 25k Hummer EV and SUVs a year because they have the more realistic Silverado and Sierra EVs to sell in volume that doesn't have to have the crazy offroad capability. And what appears to be more than a handful of CUV/SUV to cater to different segments.

Rivian has no target market? Do you know who buys high end pickups? People want an EV pickup in suburbs so they can go get bark for the yard or tow a boat to the lake, Rivian can handle both of those, can go play on track day, beat most Corvettes to 60, can go to MOAB and embarrass the Hummer, and cost you less while doing all those things. Try the Hummer in the parking lot at the mall, and in most garages, it's a dinosaur. 6" wider than Lightning in width, but much smaller on the interior. The Hummer is one of the most poorly packaged Ev's on the road, way too much unusable area. Battery too tall kills the ground clearance, drive units too tall makes the bed and frunk high for loading. Interior far smaller than full sized crew cab pickups from GM Ford or Ram, The Rivian has much better packaging. Gm needs to learn from the Hummer and Lyriq mistakes so they do not repeat on Blazer and equinox.

 

[MattF]

Not sure where some get their interior dimensions for the Hummer vs Rivian but the Hummer has much more rear shoulder and hip room than the Rivian. Hummer has about 6” more hip room and about 5” more shoulder room. So, no the Rivian isn’t roomier inside than the Hummer. The Hummer may not take advantage of its width for interior space due to the fender flares, but it’s still way more comfortable in the back seat than the Rivian.

As someone who designs parking garages for a living the ability to park a car is a function of two things - space width and bay width which relates to turning radius. So yes the width of the Hummer will make it harder to open the door and get out of the car but the rear wheel steering makes it much easier to get into the space in the first place. The two trucks are about the same length so that’s still an issue but still not nearly as long as a Lightning.

The Hummer compares more to a Raptor or TRX than a smaller Rivian. Compare the Rivian to a Gladiator.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Not sure where some get their interior dimensions for the Hummer vs Rivian but the Hummer has much more rear shoulder and hip room than the Rivian. Hummer has about 6” more hip room and about 5” more shoulder room. So, no the Rivian isn’t roomier inside than the Hummer. The Hummer may not take advantage of its width for interior space due to the fender flares, but it’s still way more comfortable in the back seat than the Rivian.

As someone who designs parking garages for a living the ability to park a car is a function of two things - space width and bay width which relates to turning radius. So yes the width of the Hummer will make it harder to open the door and get out of the car but the rear wheel steering makes it much easier to get into the space in the first place. The two trucks are about the same length so that’s still an issue but still not nearly as long as a Lightning.

The Hummer compares more to a Raptor or TRX than a smaller Rivian. Compare the Rivian to a Gladiator.

Read my comment again, when taking about a roomier interior I mentioned "Lightning" which is bigger than Hummer by several inches in length and width. Ford's cab is packaged better...

Parking a fat car is about space, rear steering helps, but is is still subject to the available space. Yes, Hummer is more competitive with TRX, and Raptor, both of which have more interior space, and will put a whipping on the Hummer on most trails.

 

[Shaved Ice]

The high end truck market, truck country, cowboy Cadillacs, are full size trucks. There is no real market for a high end mini truck. Everyone that wants one will buy it the first two years, then it will tank. Suburbia buys cheap mini trucks for the convenience.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

The high end truck market, truck country, cowboy Cadillacs, are full size trucks. There is no real market for a high end mini truck. Everyone that wants one will buy it the first two years, then it will tank. Suburbia buys cheap mini trucks for the convenience.

Time will tell, but right now I would say Rivian has 3 solid products. Toyota still sells a lot of Tacoma's.

 

[Shaved Ice]

Time will tell, but right now I would say Rivian has 3 solid products. Toyota still sells a lot of Tacoma's.

Tacomas start at 26K and max out below 50K. Oh, and they last 20+ years.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Tacomas start at 26K and max out below 50K. Oh, and they last 20+ years.

You should take a closer look at driving a Rivian... Especially on the mountain road... Land Rover is toast... Key comments from Kyle after shredding it for more then a week, I am buying one, got to have it.... This thing will smoke a plaid in the corners. By far the most impressive car I have driven this year.

 

[INgolfer]

If only they weren’t so ugly

 

[Tom E-Tron]

If only they weren’t so ugly

True, but still better looking than Tesla, and technically superior to anything from Ford or GM, I think Rivian is going to sell a ton, likeKyle says, people will sell their sport car to get more balanced capability. At 90K now though Rivian is expensive... I will prefer my R1S at $75K

My whole point is many naysayers said Tesla will never make it, never sell in big quantity, never be profitable, now they have made it, and the most profitable automaker, Rivian's path is easier, because the road has already been paved for them.

 

[Shaved Ice]

You should take a closer look at driving a Rivian... Especially on the mountain road... Land Rover is toast... Key comments from Kyle after shredding it for more then a week, I am buying one, got to have it.... This thing will smoke a plaid in the corners. By far the most impressive car I have driven this year.

LOL, you are too funny. There is nothing about Rivian that would make me want one. Also, truck owners never refer to their vehicle as a car. Gotta fix mistakes like that if you’re ever going to pass the Turing test. 😜

 

[Tom E-Tron]

LOL, you are too funny. There is nothing about Rivian that would make me want one. Also, truck owners never refer to their vehicle as a car. Gotta fix mistakes like that if you’re ever going to pass the Turing test. 😜

I don't think traditional truck buyers is who Rivian is going for... It's the sport truck, SUV, and Land Rover buyers they have targeted with a better mousetrap. I get that you don't like it, you are just like the Tesla naysayers... Tesla will never put pressure on BMW, I heard that so much, now Tesla outsells and way out profits BMW.

 

[theflew]

My whole point is many naysayers said Tesla will never make it, never sell in big quantity, never be profitable, now they have made it, and the most profitable automaker, Rivian's path is easier, because the road has already been paved for them.

Rivian's path is a lot harder. Tesla basically had a decade to themselves to sell electric vehicles. Rivian entered the truck market Ford and GM will fight to the death for. And by the way Tesla is also creating a truck. Rivian might not build more than Hummer this year. What's the chance they are going to build more than either Ford, GM or maybe Tesla (Cybertruck) next year? This is a capacity race more than anything else. GM has the best supply chain (dedicated cell plants) than Rivian by a wide margin. Ford is dealing with contacts until their battery plants are done in 2025. And Tesla's trying to figure out how to build a vehicle everyone knew was too expensive and complicated to build.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

Rivian's path is a lot harder. Tesla basically had a decade to themselves to sell electric vehicles. Rivian entered the truck market Ford and GM will fight to the death for. And by the way Tesla is also creating a truck. Rivian might not build more than Hummer this year. What's the chance they are going to build more than either Ford, GM or maybe Tesla (Cybertruck) next year? This is a capacity race more than anything else. GM has the best supply chain (dedicated cell plants) than Rivian by a wide margin. Ford is dealing with contacts until their battery plants are done in 2025. And Tesla's trying to figure out how to build a vehicle everyone knew was too expensive and complicated to build.

Haha... Rivian does not have to compete with GM or Ford, Just like Tesla did not compete with any other manufacture in the beginning, Tesla proved the case which makes Rivian's path easier, Tesla proved you can not only beat the legacy automakers you can dominate them with great product, and while customers brand loyalty took a while to change, people that left GM, Ford, BMW, and Honda, to go to Tesla are never coming back. You must live in a cloud, go visit Gm forums on the internet, GM trucks forums, Escalade forums, Look at the comments on any GM post on Twitter, followed by a mountain for complaints. I was at my GMC dealer the other day, they have no cars to sell, but a service department full of LS engines with failed lifters and valves. The service management told me they are seeing several a week come through from 2015 to 2021, with 1 of 3 problems, lifters, rockers, valves. GM is its own worst enemy, mission off their premium customers more and more every year, that opens the door, for Ram, who has stolen a lot of Silverado business since 2019, Tesla, who is capturing Gm customers, Rivian, and later it will be the Chinese. Last year Gm made a profit per vehicle sold of $1500, Tesla $5500, GM shrunk by 25%, Tesla grew by 80% I see Rivian doing the same, and Rivian is far better funded than GM, and has everything new, not a bunch of old junk factories that are working hard to stay off the superfund list. Rivian's success is not certain, but neither is GM's survival.

What does Sandy say... He bought one too...

 

[theflew]

Last year Gm made a profit per vehicle sold of $1500, Tesla $5500, GM shrunk by 25%, Tesla grew by 80% I see Rivian doing the same, and Rivian is far better funded than GM, and has everything new, not a bunch of old junk factories that are working hard to stay off the superfund list. Rivian's success is not certain, but neither is GM's survival.

The reason Tesla made so much per vehicle is they start at $45k and they are raising prices almost weekly. GM's vehicles start ~$16k for the Spark. Guess who's going to have the higher profit margin? I have no issues with Tesla. But they can not continue to grow quickly making$45k+ vehicles. I said the same thing when people said the S and X sales were going to continue to grow. Tesla grew last year because the legacy automakers struggled to get parts and they (Tesla) expanded into new markets. Model 3 sales declined in the US last year and Model Y sales declined each quarter last year in the US.

Rivian has entered a market that has followers that are very brand loyal. If Ford couldn't get Chevy buyers for decades. GM can't get Tacoma buyers for years. What exactly is an electric midsize truck going to do to sway them? You're right Rivian can go after Land Rover customers, but that's a pretty small market.

 

[Tom E-Tron]

The reason Tesla made so much per vehicle is they start at $45k and they are raising prices almost weekly. GM's vehicles start ~$16k for the Spark. Guess who's going to have the higher profit margin? I have no issues with Tesla. But they can not continue to grow quickly making$45k+ vehicles. I said the same thing when people said the S and X sales were going to continue to grow. Tesla grew last year because the legacy automakers struggled to get parts and they (Tesla) expanded into new markets. Model 3 sales declined in the US last year and Model Y sales declined each quarter last year in the US.

Rivian has entered a market that has followers that are very brand loyal. If Ford couldn't get Chevy buyers for decades. GM can't get Tacoma buyers for years. What exactly is an electric midsize truck going to do to sway them? You're right Rivian can go after Land Rover customers, but that's a pretty small market.

Ya, Tesla increased prices last year and sales were still up 80%, Tesla raised prices again this year and is already sold out for the year... are you starting to get it??