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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
They are building four battery plants, seems obvious that they were going to have a LOT more capacity than they have announced vehicle production for.
I really hope GM launches a battery storage system for houses, once you develop the software, that is easy money. You can generate more $$ per kWh of battery cells than you can building EV cars.
 

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I really hope GM launches a battery storage system for houses, once you develop the software, that is easy money. You can generate more $$ per kWh of battery cells than you can building EV cars.
Maybe once they get their 4th plant up and running and they begin to have excess compacity. Right now their battery compacity is taken up by their planned vehicle production and conversion business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe once they get their 4th plant up and running and they begin to have excess compacity. Right now their battery compacity is taken up by their planned vehicle production and conversion business.
Ya, right now Gm has no extra cells, but that will change later this year when Lordstown comes online and starts ramping, and remember more revenue per kWh of cells from stationary storage mean that should get some production priority, after all the whole idea is to generate as much revenue as possible from the cells you have, right?
 

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Maybe once they get their 4th plant up and running and they begin to have excess compacity. Right now their battery compacity is taken up by their planned vehicle production and conversion business.
And don’t forget they are trying to put the batteries in boats and trains now! Of course the demand will probably be pretty low for a while for those products. 😃
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Maybe once they get their 4th plant up and running and they begin to have excess compacity. Right now their battery compacity is taken up by their planned vehicle production and conversion business.
Another way to look at it, Hummer costs $125K and has 200kWh of battery cells, Tesla power wall costs $10.5K and has 13.5 kWh. That means the Hummer battery pack, deployed as stationary storage would generate more revenue. And I would say the Hummer battery is about 40% of the cost of the vehicle to build.

200 kWh/ 13.5 kWh = 14.8, so that mean you get 15 power walls out of each Hummer battery pack, which 15 x $10.5K = $158K Greater then the Hummer value, and thats just the Hummer battery pack...

Demand is off the charts for Tesla power walls, Tesla had to stop selling them to the public, and only sell them to solar customers due to crazy demand.
 

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So do we have any information on future EV products there outside of the Bolts? And will they Bolts switch over to Ultium at some point you have to asume?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So do we have any information on future EV products there outside of the Bolts? And will they Bolts switch over to Ultium at some point you have to asume?
I think Bolt will run through 2024, and then the Ultium version will be a different car altogether. Bolt name stays? I don't know...

Do they need a bolt with a $30K Equinox, and a Blazer EV? How low can they go on Bolt price?
 

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I think Bolt will run through 2024, and then the Ultium version will be a different car altogether. Bolt name stays? I don't know...

Do they need a bolt with a $30K Equinox, and a Blazer EV? How low can they go on Bolt price?
I wonder what the size of the Equinox pack is.

Ultium supports anything from 50 to 200 kWh

As for the Bolt, if GM doesn't use that name anymore, they still have the Spark, Trax, and Trailblazer, all in around the same segment.
 

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So do we have any information on future EV products there outside of the Bolts? And will they Bolts switch over to Ultium at some point you have to asume?
I didn't watch the presentation but last I knew, 2023 was supposed to be the last year of production for the Bolt EV, which was supposed to be replaced with an ultium platform. The EUV was supposed to continue on BEV2 until 2027.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I wonder what the size of the Equinox pack is.

Ultium supports anything from 50 to 200 kWh

As for the Bolt, if GM doesn't use that name anymore, they still have the Spark, Trax, and Trailblazer, all in around the same segment.
Equinox with 300 mile range and FWD is about 70 kWh, 10 flat module pack
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I didn't watch the presentation but last I knew, 2023 was supposed to be the last year of production for the Bolt EV, which was supposed to be replaced with an ultium platform. The EUV was supposed to continue on BEV2 until 2027.
I don't see much market for the EUV, at $36K when the larger, longer range, better looking Equinox is $30K, do you?
 

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In addition to Tesla Powerwall -- others are getting in to the game too. Generac is now making the PWRCell, which I'm getting a quote on, as I am tired of spending money on netmetering for my solar roof. Tesla won't sell Powerwall unless getting a Tesla roof with it now. The PWRCell has higher capacity though -- 18kW.

Another interesting point (from the electrician yesterday) is that they're now requiring these battery systems to be in a fireproof room. It's difficult to have them as external batteries in Michigan, so I have to build a small room in my garage with 3/4" drywall for fire stopping. This is a change over the past year, which he believes is due to automotive battery fires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
In addition to Tesla Powerwall -- others are getting in to the game too. Generac is now making the PWRCell, which I'm getting a quote on, as I am tired of spending money on netmetering for my solar roof. Tesla won't sell Powerwall unless getting a Tesla roof with it now. The PWRCell has higher capacity though -- 18kW.

Another interesting point (from the electrician yesterday) is that they're now requiring these battery systems to be in a fireproof room. It's difficult to have them as external batteries in Michigan, so I have to build a small room in my garage with 3/4" drywall for fire stopping. This is a change over the past year, which he believes is due to automotive battery fires.
Yes, GM's advantage is they make the cells, Generac is buying them. If I was buying cells for my home I would definitely buy LFP as it is safer, cheaper and longer lasting then other lithium chemistries. BYD, LG, an CATL also make them, I would hesitate on Generac, as their electronics quality has always been hit and miss until they have more time in the market.
 

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I don't see much market for the EUV, at $36K when the larger, longer range, better looking Equinox is $30K, do you?
I don't, but the price structures don't need to stay the same. The Bolt EV dropped in price you were able to buy them at pretty significantly after the tax credit ended. Some dealers were selling brand new LTs for 23-24k in 2020 before the chip crisis. If the Bolt EV really does go away, I can see the EUV price dropping to fill the gap. Equniox RS is probably going to command $45k+, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are doing two battery sizes to get the starting price down to $30k. Where else are they going to put the 50kWh packs they said would be on the low end of ultium?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't, but the price structures don't need to stay the same. The Bolt EV dropped in price you were able to buy them at pretty significantly after the tax credit ended. Some dealers were selling brand new LTs for 23-24k in 2020 before the chip crisis. If the Bolt EV really does go away, I can see the EUV price dropping to fill the gap. Equniox RS is probably going to command $45k+, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they are doing two battery sizes to get the starting price down to $30k. Where else are they going to put the 50kWh packs they said would be on the low end of ultium?
Right, but the cost structure is wrong on the Bolt, Battery and systems are substantially more expensive then the Equinox, GM quoted the cost difference is 40%, so that means the Bolt is just obsolete in cost structure and technology.
 

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Right, but the cost structure is wrong on the Bolt, Battery and systems are substantially more expensive then the Equinox, GM quoted the cost difference is 40%, so that means the Bolt is just obsolete in cost structure and technology.
Is that "today's" prices or the price difference from introduction? I'm not being facetous, I have no idea.
 

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If you look around, there's information about three different vehicles on the BEV3 based C1 platform that are supposed to be happening in the Delta plant. If that really is the plan, my guess is that anything BEV2 is done for sometime in 2024. But there's nothing that actually confirms it that I can find.
 
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