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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
GM has stated publicly and privately that they are working with dealers to sell EV's at MSRP consistently. I decided to call around on the Lyriq, I called 5 Cadillac dealerships (in 2 states), and not one of them would agree let me reserve a Lyriq at MSRP price. All of them wanted to mark it up or add packages of goods and services I do not need for an extra $5K to $10K. This is a serious problem for GM, and will bite them hard when these cars start deliveries and people realize they are being hit for an extra 5-10K. This is a threat to Cadillac's future as a brand, as if the EV launch goes poorly Cadillac has no future. GM must rein in their dealers, or risk public relations problems they never imagined. @BigJonEV are you guys marking up the Lyriq?
 

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This is definitely bad for GM's future EV sales. I feel bad for all the members here who were active on the forum and just anxious to get their Hummers and now they/we all sit and just watch 90% of the reservation holders get them and flip them with no interest in ever owning the vehicle. I'm sure that frustrates the dealers as well because they aren't getting a standard "allotment" to try and make whatever they can on the MSRP. I'm sure they are also taking note of all the money being made by consumers while they are still hurting for new inventory. Can't be good for GM's relationship with their dealers.

I'm sure the resellers are continuing to taking note and making tons of reservations on the Silverado RST, Lyriq, Z06, and more. Imagine the exposure GM would get if they had legit people excited about Hummers or their over EVs driving them around and posting cool videos on social media! Instead, all consumers are seeing at this point out of GM is "If I want one I'm going to have to wait a few years or pay WAY above market value." EV's are already out of the price range of many people and this is just compounding the issue.
 

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GM has stated publicly and privately that they are working with dealers to sell EV's at MSRP consistently. I decided to call around on the Lyriq, I called 5 Cadillac dealerships (in 2 states), and not one of them would agree let me reserve a Lyriq at MSRP price. All of them wanted to mark it up or add packages of goods and services I do not need for an extra $5K to $10K. This is a serious problem for GM, and will bite them hard when these cars start deliveries and people realize they are being hit for an extra 5-10K. This is a threat to Cadillac's future as a brand, as if the EV launch goes poorly Cadillac has no future. GM must rein in their dealers, or risk public relations problems they never imagined. @BigJonEV are you guys marking up the Lyriq?
We are not marking up the Lyriq at all. It will be the MSRP of how you order it. We are in this for the long haul and made a decision on any of our vehicles to not charge over sticker, including Yukons, Escalades, Hummers, Lyriqs, etc..
 

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This isn't just an issue with GM, unfortunately a lot of dealers for multiple brands especially those that own multiple locations are using their influence to get top $$$ on anything and abusing the market situation and their protections under law. GM and other car manufactures can't really do much more than they already are.

I applaud those dealers that are selling at MSRP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This is definitely bad for GM's future EV sales. I feel bad for all the members here who were active on the forum and just anxious to get their Hummers and now they/we all sit and just watch 90% of the reservation holders get them and flip them with no interest in ever owning the vehicle. I'm sure that frustrates the dealers as well because they aren't getting a standard "allotment" to try and make whatever they can on the MSRP. I'm sure they are also taking note of all the money being made by consumers while they are still hurting for new inventory. Can't be good for GM's relationship with their dealers.

I'm sure the resellers are continuing to taking note and making tons of reservations on the Silverado RST, Lyriq, Z06, and more. Imagine the exposure GM would get if they had legit people excited about Hummers or their over EVs driving them around and posting cool videos on social media! Instead, all consumers are seeing at this point out of GM is "If I want one I'm going to have to wait a few years or pay WAY above market value." EV's are already out of the price range of many people and this is just compounding the issue.
I disagree, I think the people who reserved the Hummer intending to flip it are rare, what has happened is the market is paying ridiculous prices for these vehicles, tempting would be HummerEv owners to flip them. When I made my reservation, I had no though of flipping it at all, I just wanted an EV pickup. But if I can double my money, hell ya, I am going to do it, just as I would do with any car I buy. No car means more than the retail price to me.

As for dealers, here is how I really feel, dealers are like realtors, they put buyers and sellers together and get a commission for doing so. In the case of the Hummer, or Lyriq, dealers don't have to do SH--, just sit back and wait for the orders to come, they don't have to floor inventory, don't have to do marketing, don't have to generate leads, GM is doing all of that for them, they just have to prep and deliver the vehicle, and get a nice commission for doing so. Dealer markups are the same as a realtor raising the commission at the last second, but in most cases they do nothing additional.

There is a YouTube guy called Brian Mello at Marty's Buick GMC, and Chevrolet who bragged he got a Hummer reservation he planned to flip, Thats your flipper... Go attack him for bumping people down the list, but not the guys like me, or @Dark-Fx who reserved planning to buy to own, but the economic conditions changed and now it is quite lucrative to flip the vehicle. Also for me, I am really not the Hummer Target customer, personally I think older Hummers are crap, and I was only interested because its an EV pickup with cool capabilities. I might even be embarrassed to drive a Hummer on a daily basis, because I do not like to "stick out" and much prefer to blend in to society.

ON GM, hopefully the Hummer teaches them a lesson to put more vehicles in the market faster to slow the gains on the flips, but some vehicles like C8 are just hot, and going to always be flipped. Lyriq and SilveradoEV initially will be similar, but both high production vehicles that will be put on the market in larger numbers. Think GM is rolling into Hummer sales slower then they planned, and trying to be very careful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This isn't just an issue with GM, unfortunately a lot of dealers for multiple brands especially those that own multiple locations are using their influence to get top $$$ on anything and abusing the market situation and their protections under law. GM and other car manufactures can't really do much more than they already are.

I applaud those dealers that are selling at MSRP.
Same for me... Dealers selling at MSRP deserve attention and sales, GM needs to bias allocations to favor those dealerships and starve the greedy dealers of product until they earn how to play on the "team". Gm is pricing Lyriq aggressively, and it will be a huge hit if dealers get it right, but GM has to force some dealers hands, to make sure they comply with the plan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
We are not marking up the Lyriq at all. It will be the MSRP of how you order it. We are in this for the long haul and made a decision on any of our vehicles to not charge over sticker, including Yukons, Escalades, Hummers, Lyriqs, etc..
That is awesome, and great to hear. I hope you are rewarded for this strategy with a lot of allocations.
 

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I disagree, I think the people who reserved the Hummer intending to flip it are rare, what has happened is the market is paying ridiculous prices for these vehicles, tempting would be HummerEv owners to flip them. When I made my reservation, I had no though of flipping it at all, I just wanted an EV pickup. But if I can double my money, hell ya, I am going to do it, just as I would do with any car I buy. No car means more than the retail price to me.

As for dealers, here is how I really feel, dealers are like realtors, they put buyers and sellers together and get a commission for doing so. In the case of the Hummer, or Lyriq, dealers don't have to do SH--, just sit back and wait for the orders to come, they don't have to floor inventory, don't have to do marketing, don't have to generate leads, GM is doing all of that for them, they just have to prep and deliver the vehicle, and get a nice commission for doing so. Dealer markups are the same as a realtor raising the commission at the last second, but in most cases they do nothing additional.

There is a YouTube guy called Brian Mello at Marty's Buick GMC, and Chevrolet who bragged he got a Hummer reservation he planned to flip, Thats your flipper... Go attack him for bumping people down the list, but not the guys like me, or @Dark-Fx who reserved planning to buy to own, but the economic conditions changed and now it is quite lucrative to flip the vehicle. Also for me, I am really not the Hummer Target customer, personally I think older Hummers are crap, and I was only interested because its an EV pickup with cool capabilities. I might even be embarrassed to drive a Hummer on a daily basis, because I do not like to "stick out" and much prefer to blend in to society.

ON GM, hopefully the Hummer teaches them a lesson to put more vehicles in the market faster to slow the gains on the flips, but some vehicles like C8 are just hot, and going to always be flipped. Lyriq and SilveradoEV initially will be similar, but both high production vehicles that will be put on the market in larger numbers. Think GM is rolling into Hummer sales slower then they planned, and trying to be very careful.
I'm not reserving anything I wouldn't want to purchase and own. I have a lot of pre-orders on different startup EV company vehicles. I'm not confident the majority of them will even make it to market, so it's pretty difficult to just reserve only what you want. I didn't reserve the lyriq because they didn't lead with the AWD model. I probably won't get one now after seeing them in person.

I'm definitely interested in the fully electric corvette that has been pseudo announced, but I probably won't put down a reservation on one. It's just too impractical for where I'm at in my life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm not reserving anything I wouldn't want to purchase and own. I have a lot of pre-orders on different startup EV company vehicles. I'm not confident the majority of them will even make it to market, so it's pretty difficult to just reserve only what you want. I didn't reserve the lyriq because they didn't lead with the AWD model. I probably won't get one now after seeing them in person.

I'm definitely interested in the fully electric corvette that has been pseudo announced, but I probably won't put down a reservation on one. It's just too impractical for where I'm at in my life.
Same for me, I reserve many EV's, some I will go through with, some I won't, but I want the option.
 

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Same for me, I reserve many EV's, some I will go through with, some I won't, but I want the option.
Same, the only one I have now besides the Edition 1 I’m waiting on (and plan to keep) is the Rivian R1T - still have a launch edition there at the great old pricing, ends up like 85K I think 15-20K cheaper than they are now even. I ordered the max 400+ mile pack which wont’ start production until 2023 it seems so not even sure what they’ll cost as a new order then hehehe…. I’m definitely tempted to take it also and maybe replace our F150 Hybrid with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Same, the only one I have now besides the Edition 1 I’m waiting on (and plan to keep) is the Rivian R1T - still have a launch edition there at the great old pricing, ends up like 85K I think 15-20K cheaper than they are now even. I ordered the max 400+ mile pack which wont’ start production until 2023 it seems so not even sure what they’ll cost as a new order then hehehe…. I’m definitely tempted to take it also and maybe replace our F150 Hybrid with it.
I like the R1T but my faith in Rivian delivering max packs is dropping. I think they are head over heals just trying to produce trucks and with battery prices rising, I think that can will get kicked down the road until they catch up with large pack orders. We will be lucky if 1 max pack is delivered in 2023, so I would not be holding my breath for that. If you want a 400 mile pickup Silverado E will be the first on the market in any numbers.
 

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I like the R1T but my faith in Rivian delivering max packs is dropping. I think they are head over heals just trying to produce trucks and with battery prices rising, I think that can will get kicked down the road until they catch up with large pack orders. We will be lucky if 1 max pack is delivered in 2023, so I would not be holding my breath for that. If you want a 400 mile pickup Silverado E will be the first on the market in any numbers.
oh yeah agree, not holding my breathbut if they honor the price when they do then may be a good option. Oldprefer a little bigger/full size anyway.
 

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GM has stated publicly and privately that they are working with dealers to sell EV's at MSRP consistently. I decided to call around on the Lyriq, I called 5 Cadillac dealerships (in 2 states), and not one of them would agree let me reserve a Lyriq at MSRP price. All of them wanted to mark it up or add packages of goods and services I do not need for an extra $5K to $10K. This is a serious problem for GM, and will bite them hard when these cars start deliveries and people realize they are being hit for an extra 5-10K. This is a threat to Cadillac's future as a brand, as if the EV launch goes poorly Cadillac has no future. GM must rein in their dealers, or risk public relations problems they never imagined. @BigJonEV are you guys marking up the Lyriq?
Dealers better be careful, there is a big push for companies to sell directly to consumers...... here is the proposed bill for Connecticut! There may only be manufacturer service stations down the road if they are not careful!
CT Bill SB214:
 

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My dealer is going to sell at MSRP but is requiring 1) an overpriced front window ceramic tint, and 2) some stupid protection program that is $$$ to replace key fobs if needed, VIN etch windows, and wrap door edges… don’t mind #1 too much but #2 is a waste.

since they are closest around here letting it ride but won’t leave the best taste in my mouth per say to do more business with them again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Dealers better be careful, there is a big push for companies to sell directly to consumers...... here is the proposed bill for Connecticut! There may only be manufacturer service stations down the road if they are not careful!
CT Bill SB214:
Ya, This is a big deal for GM, in my opinion its totally up to GM to fix it, they need to put more pressure on these dealers and/or survey their dealers that will sell at MSRP and promote them to make it easier for customers to find MSRP pricing. GM could do this easily.

I posted a few bad reviews for my local dealers online, and they are already calling me to get them removed (within hours), 2 offered to make a Lyriq deal at MSRP now (if I remove the bad reviews), but I explained to them, its not about the $5-10K for me, its about the GM stock my family owns, and the future of the company. I don't care what they charge me for a Lyriq, I care about that policy of marking up EV's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My dealer is going to sell at MSRP but is requiring 1) an overpriced front window ceramic tint, and 2) some stupid protection program that is $$$ to replace key fobs if needed, VIN etch windows, and wrap door edges… don’t mind #1 too much but #2 is a waste.

since they are closest around here letting it ride but won’t leave the best taste in my mouth per say to do more business with them again.
Requiring customers to buy an overpriced package of goods and services is the same as a markup in my book. They can offer the package as an option to customer, some will choose it, but they cannot force people to buy it as that is in essence raising the price.
 

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Here is what Mary Barra said about this situation in the recent earnings call:

John Murphy -- Bank of America Merrill Lynch -- Analyst
But, Mary, I'm sorry, so as we think about the MSRP increases that may be announced, should we think about the invoice going up in a linear fashion with those MSRPs. I'm just curious, because the invoice is obviously a lot different than the MSRP.
Mary Barra -- Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Well, as we look at MSRPs, if we see -- there's a small handful of dealers that are not behaving consistent with the agreement we have with them. And we deal with them and they lose allocation
. For the most part, our dealers are respecting the MSRP. I have actually had dealers send me letters committing to me that they're doing that.
So we address those handful of exceptions, but for the most part, I think that's what customers will see.

Looks like buyers and reservation holders who run into dealers playing games w/ MSRP need to yell loudly to GM directly with Mary's quote in-hand about getting GM to "deal with them and they lose allocation".

@BigJonEV is that your understanding of GM's policy about this? Dealers going over MSRP are violating their agreement with GM and will lose allocations?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Here is what Mary Barra said about this situation in the recent earnings call:

John Murphy -- Bank of America Merrill Lynch -- Analyst
But, Mary, I'm sorry, so as we think about the MSRP increases that may be announced, should we think about the invoice going up in a linear fashion with those MSRPs. I'm just curious, because the invoice is obviously a lot different than the MSRP.
Mary Barra -- Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Well, as we look at MSRPs, if we see -- there's a small handful of dealers that are not behaving consistent with the agreement we have with them. And we deal with them and they lose allocation
. For the most part, our dealers are respecting the MSRP. I have actually had dealers send me letters committing to me that they're doing that.
So we address those handful of exceptions, but for the most part, I think that's what customers will see.

Looks like buyers and reservation holders who run into dealers playing games w/ MSRP need to yell loudly to GM directly with Mary's quote in-hand about getting GM to "deal with them and they lose allocation".

@BigJonEV is that your understanding of GM's policy about this? Dealers going over MSRP are violating their agreement with GM and will lose allocations?
Oh, I already tweeted all the GM brass to bring attention to the local dealerships activities, and will continue to press until I see action.
 

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Here is what Mary Barra said about this situation in the recent earnings call:

John Murphy -- Bank of America Merrill Lynch -- Analyst
But, Mary, I'm sorry, so as we think about the MSRP increases that may be announced, should we think about the invoice going up in a linear fashion with those MSRPs. I'm just curious, because the invoice is obviously a lot different than the MSRP.
Mary Barra -- Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Well, as we look at MSRPs, if we see -- there's a small handful of dealers that are not behaving consistent with the agreement we have with them. And we deal with them and they lose allocation
. For the most part, our dealers are respecting the MSRP. I have actually had dealers send me letters committing to me that they're doing that.
So we address those handful of exceptions, but for the most part, I think that's what customers will see.

Looks like buyers and reservation holders who run into dealers playing games w/ MSRP need to yell loudly to GM directly with Mary's quote in-hand about getting GM to "deal with them and they lose allocation".

@BigJonEV is that your understanding of GM's policy about this? Dealers going over MSRP are violating their agreement with GM and will lose allocations?
This is probably why some dealers are putting unwanted add-ons onto vehicles before they sell them.
 
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