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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Wow, I am really surprised and impressed with Fords, F150 lightning offering, an EV pickup nearly anyone can afford, looks great specs are not bad, but the pricing is aggressive... Cannot wait to see the Silverado EV, and what GM can do to compete.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have to be honest some of my enthusiasm for the hummer has been lost based on what we've learned about payload and vehicle weight. It may not be a functional alternative for me. The Ford seems promising and for the 100 refundable deposit I just put one down. Now I need to ponder what I really want / need from this vehicle purchase. I still can't get past how much I like the look on the hummer. However, has GM missed on their battery design based on what we see from Ford?
The Jury is still out, I thought Ford would muff the F150 Lighting when I saw they are using their regular chassis and converting it to EV, but after hearing the weight of the Hummer I am wondering if GM made the right choice to go all new chassis. Now, that being said, GM has not introduced the Silverado Ev yet, so we have not seen their entry level options, but I think Ford definitely ratchet up the pressure on GM. I also hear Tesla is building their prototype Cybertruck's now and so we will get to see what it really looks like, and real specs soon. I expect Tesla will fire back at Ford, which might make it interesting for GM. I always prefer to buy GM, but I will not buy a less capable EV just to be loyal, loyalty does not go that far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
finally seeing all these choices is creating real competition. We, the consumers, should start to reap the benefits over the next several years. I’m truly hoping the weight specs are wrong on the hummer, they appear almost ludicrous.
Ford is also going to announce a battery manufacturing partnership with SK innovation today, they are making the right moves...

The Hummer weight was confirmed by GMC, its real.. I think GMC tried to make the Hummer do too much (3000lb battery pack), and was not disciplined at controlling mass. Although the Hummer is good looking, and filled with Tech, it's going to take a beating in the public for its over indulgence, and undisciplined use of resources. GM should have launched a more efficient model first as the whole green thing might blow up in their face as reviewers test the Hummer and rip it on efficiency.. Its quite predictable how this will go down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
GM isn't in a bad spot, they have announced the Silverado EV and their customer base will wait a bit. In some ways it puts them in position to launch with updated batteries and ensure they have better range. They will have to match closely on base features and price and I bet Silverado EV will have a < $40K base configuration as well. I need a new truck relatively soon, within the next year, so I can't wait for Silverado.

The reality is I’m probably spending $85 to $120 K on a new truck and it’s going to be which one gives me the best combination of features I want. Hummer EV, Lightning or Cybertruck. None are perfect, none have all the features I want. Ultimately, I want the Hummer EV with a 6ft bed, 3000lb cargo capacity and 12,000lb tow capacity, 400+ mile range while towing a 6000lb trailer. Might have to spend less now on the Ford and be happy waiting for round 2 of the EV trucks to truly deliver.

Ford’s smaller battery setup within the frame was a reasonable compromise to range for price and to facilitate simple transition of the F-150 body. And hey, they can still mount a spare in the usual spot. ;)
The GM will have better range, as they have space to stuff in the 200 kWh battery, and I much prefer a GM product, so I am excited that Ford put the pressure on them... But I do not want the Chevy, rather have GMC EV... The Hummer is so appealing, but if I buy the I need a second truck to do work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don’t need any towing capacity. I’m unhappy with the hummer payload. I just want a good range, fun truck so I can retire and take a tour of the US in an electric SUV/SUT/PU.
For your use, that is the biggest problem with the Hummer EV, it might get a range rating of 350 miles on the EPA test, but with all that mass, off road tires, and poor aerodynamics, when you go faster then 55 mph that 350 mile range will plummet, and in mountainous terrain its not going to be pleasing. I would guess at 80 mph the 350 mile range becomes somewhere around 200 + or -, and 80 mph in the cold weather, worse.

I mean the Hummer is a hella cool ride, but but but... not at all practical. With EV's the current battery energy density is just a buzz kill for anything cool, that's why all the Tesla's are teardrop shaped and have funny looking front ends.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hmmm... Perhaps. I think it is till a wait, but will be here before we realize it. The Ford ticks all the boxes except range. Cargo capacity is a touch low, but I also trust that I can push it a bit the couple times I will in the time I own it. I’ve owned dozens of fleet and personal trucks and that’s the one thing Ford and GM/Chevy do best — build them tough and rate them conservatively. It really comes down to range while towing when I’m out of town. I don’t want to own two trucks so I have one to drive daily and another to take into the mountains or camping.

My fleet sales guys think the rating on the Hummer EV is way low and conservative. They’re saying 1450lb cargo capacity to keep the listed GVWR under 10,500. At > 10,500 the truck needs extra DOT tags even if owned and operated personally in most places. In reality the thing is a beast and will almost certainly handle a lot more. ...in theory. Still some questions watching all the videos of the truck accelerating and the rear squat as it happens. They’re probably leaving the rear suspension soft in WTF mode to maximize HP to the road... hopefully.

Tow capacity and range are still my number one concern with the Hummer. I need a legit 200 miles with the trailer to make the truck viable for about 15% of my driving. Daily driving it around town most of the time is a non-issue with range, trailer or not.
If you want 200 miles towing it better be a single axle airstream you are towing? Towing with an EV typically falls in the middle of 2X to 3X higher consumption. See a Tesla tow which are the most efficient Ev's on the road...

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Rivian has said on their website that if you're using the R1T to tow at max capacity (11,000 pounds) expect range to be cut in half.

The R1T will have a towing capacity of 11,000 lbs. The R1S will have a towing capacity of 7,700 lbs. Similar to a conventional vehicle, range is affected by towing. Hauling 11,000 lbs will reduce range by about 50%.

A lot of the towing range loss varies on all the other conditions, trailer shape, trailer rolling resistance, topography of your route, weather conditions, and other variables. Rivian's 50% loss of range estimate might be using an EPA loop and not necessarily all highway, at 70 mph. My experience is 50% is an optimistic estimate, start adding other variables and 60-70% range loss will happen, and in mountainous terrain, all bets are off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Someone needs to electrify the trailers to provide spare power. Yes I know that will reduce the weight capacity but towing seems to be the Achilles heel for electric vehicles.
Yes, to have a serious tow vehicle, we need the next evolution of battery tech, it's just energy density problem, a tank of diesel in an HD pickup has + or - 10 Hummer battery packs of energy stored, So even though the Duramax diesel is only about 30% thermally efficient on an average drive, it still provides much more usable energy to pull the trailer than even a monster battery pack can. EV's can make up a little ground using regen braking, but this problem is with all EV's until we get to 400 wh/kg battery energy density when EV's and Ice will equal out. Right now we are somewhere around 150 wh/kg.

 
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