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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had told some of the forum members here GM is swimming in the small pool to be messing around with EV-GO and it did not take long for things to potentially get ugly.

GM, stop messing around and make an agreement with Electrify America! They have the second best charging network nationally, and we know you are not going to work with Tesla, so at least give us second best.


For Comparison here is a picture of EV-Go's USA charging network in the USA over 70kW

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and here is Electrify America with the same filter, Any Questions?
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EA chargers will work fine with GM vehicles, so I am not sure a partnership is needed. Personally I like that EVGO is expanding, thus providing a choice. This will help to keep charging costs down and reliability up in the long term, due to competition. EA is well funded already and has missed all of their deadlines too, due to many of the same reasons, even pre-Covid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
EA chargers will work fine with GM vehicles, so I am not sure a partnership is needed. Personally I like that EVGO is expanding, thus providing a choice. This will help to keep charging costs down and reliability up in the long term, due to competition. EA is well funded already and has missed all of their deadlines too, due to many of the same reasons, even pre-Covid.
I respectfully disagree, EA is the only company rolling out high powered charging stations at a fast rate (other than Tesla), and the more companies that invest into them, the more they can roll out. GM would be wise to work directly with EA, and have their money directed to expanding an already good network rather than investing in EV-Go which from the current map we can see has almost no charging "network". I cannot see a path to getting anywhere using the EV go Network, not to mention the low power of the EV Go network with the extremely high consumption of the Hummer EV, is not going to be a good match. As thirsty as the Hummer is we will need to get maximum charging rate as often as possible to make road tripping anything less than a nightmare. The Hummer typical highway consumption will be around 650 wh/mi, so if you are only charging at 50 kW EV-Go chargers you will spend almost equal times charging and driving which is a very bad ratio,
 

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Partnering with EA is the way to go. From all of my public charging experience they have been the easiest to use and also seem to have the least amount of problems connection wise. When I got my first 2017 Bolt it came with a ChargePoint booklet and key tag. Clearly GM has partnered with charging companies in the past, why not partner up with EA now. Fast chargers and a great amount of them currently operational sounds like a no brainer to me.
 

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Having never owned an EV, I don’t understand how the partnership benefits the consumer. I read somewhere you get free charging for a certain time period after a Tesla purchase. Is this what you are talking about with GM’s partnership? Is there more to it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Having never owned an EV, I don’t understand how the partnership benefits the consumer. I read somewhere you get free charging for a certain time period after a Tesla purchase. Is this what you are talking about with GM’s partnership? Is there more to it?
So anyone can use the Electrify America Network, if they have a CCS equipped car of Chademo, however not all manufactures can access EA's inner circle and get benefits like direct plug to charge (just plug and walk away, no payment BS, or other step) This is a real benefit as we have seen with the EA network sometimes has trouble processing credit card payments which could leave you without the ability to charge. Audi has this direct relationship with EA (Audi is part of VW group, as is EA), so I can just enter the charger number in the my Audi app, and the charger starts, this is one extra step, but I bought a 2019, and "plug to charge" was not available then unless you had a Tesla. I would guess EA requires some deposit per vehicle sold for these access, for GM they may consider this cost too high, but Ford is doing it, and it will be a competitive advantage to Ford to have direct plug and charge the same way it is an advantage to Tesla today. I do not have any Idea about the specific costs, but know GM most remain competitive with Ford, van cannot afford to let Ford have any advantage, perceived or real.

There are only 2 networks in the USA capable of distance travel currently, Tesla or EA, and right now Tesla has an advantage in many markets buy EA is catching up fast. Tesla is proprietary, you hav to buy a Tesla to use it, EA is open to the public. Perhaps GM is afraid of giving EA (VW group) a monopoly advantage on fast charging, but at this stage of electrification, I see GM having 2 choices, partner with Tesla or EA, or build a proprietary network themselves, which will cost billions and take a decade. If they do not choose one of those, they are leaving Ford wide open to take advantage, and leaving their customers out to dry with a public network that can be hit and miss.
 

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Just to clarify, EA is not a part of VW, it is an entirely separate company. They get 10 years of funding from VW, but VW has no say in their operations. So far Porsche and Ford are supporting plug and charge, albeit not very well. The EA App works very well in my experience and provides the choice of a discount if you pay a monthly fee ($4/month). I do not pay that fee since I have not been using DFDC that much, as of now. $0.43/KWH without fee, $0.31/KWH with fee.

Since I just ordered a Mach E, I have been checking out the forums regarding plug and charge, and have also watched some on-line videos. It is really unreliable and many have just shut it off, and use the EA App instead. Mach E customers get 250KWH of free charging on that network, paid for by Ford. Also with the plug and charge, if you have the monthly fee discount on KWH, that discount does not apply when using plug and charge with the Ford Pass. That is another reason some people are not using plug and charge, especially after running out the free 250KWH. Many other car makers have offered some free charging initially with new cars as well.

My point about plug and charge is that it is a very nice feature, but both Porsche and Ford have had many issues with reliability, because it is not mature technology at this point. I do believe it will improve in the future.

Eventually, I think all car makers and all charging networks will get on board with plug and charge. The car and the charger have to implement ISO5118 Standard. Apparently Greenlots has it with Ford also, but I have no idea where they have stations, certainly not in Arizona. As far as partnership, it is mainly a matter of getting a billing system setup between the companies, not anything technical.

At any rate, I have zero concerns about being able to charge my Bolt, Mach E or Hummer on the EA network.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just to clarify, EA is not a part of VW, it is an entirely separate company. They get 10 years of funding from VW, but VW has no say in their operations. So far Porsche and Ford are supporting plug and charge, albeit not very well. The EA App works very well in my experience and provides the choice of a discount if you pay a monthly fee ($4/month). I do not pay that fee since I have not been using DFDC that much, as of now. $0.43/KWH without fee, $0.31/KWH with fee.

Since I just ordered a Mach E, I have been checking out the forums regarding plug and charge, and have also watched some on-line videos. It is really unreliable and many have just shut it off, and use the EA App instead. Mach E customers get 250KWH of free charging on that network, paid for by Ford. Also with the plug and charge, if you have the monthly fee discount on KWH, that discount does not apply when using plug and charge with the Ford Pass. That is another reason some people are not using plug and charge, especially after running out the free 250KWH. Many other car makers have offered some free charging initially with new cars as well.

My point about plug and charge is that it is a very nice feature, but both Porsche and Ford have had many issues with reliability, because it is not mature technology at this point. I do believe it will improve in the future.

Eventually, I think all car makers and all charging networks will get on board with plug and charge. The car and the charger have to implement ISO5118 Standard. Apparently Greenlots has it with Ford also, but I have no idea where they have stations, certainly not in Arizona. As far as partnership, it is mainly a matter of getting a billing system setup between the companies, not anything technical.

At any rate, I have zero concerns about being able to charge my Bolt, Mach E or Hummer on the EA network.
Haha! you think EA is completely separate from VW? Sir, that is just plain Naive, all the execs came from VW group, and it's all a big charade to make lemonade out of lemons. VW was able to defer $2B of their dieselgate fines and over 10 years invest it in to electric vehicle adoption. VW is the sole owner of the company Electrify America, which is allowed under the fine mitigating agreement, but it is operated as a stand alone entity, and has to remain open to the public for 10 years, after that??? Now, VW is not allowed to block any manufacturer during the 10 year agreement, but what happens after that? VW has already basically blocked Nissan, and Tesla by only having 1 Chademo plug at each location, and those are usually broke down (again scroll around plug share and read the notes)

Now, there are bugs with plug and charge, as it is brand new, and Ford's charging software is buggy as heck, as is Porsches. As it gets worked out however, this will be the standard, and if you think EA chargers process payments reliably on credit card swipes, again naive, and you have not spent enough time at the chargers talking to people or scouring Plug Share comments. Now, you are talking about downloading the EA app, and setting up another account? Again my point is for GM to give the customer the best possible experience, and not have to horse around with different apps and multiple accounts. You know the credit card I made my deposit to buy a Tesla is the same card that is still on the account for supercharging, I did not have to do anything at all which is the way the customer experience should be.

On your final comment, its not about whether you are able to charge or not, its about us as customers having the very best experience possible, and not have to be a charging nerd with a bunch of apps to make a cross country trip. Make the experience as Tesla like as possible? right? Now EV-Go is a joke, they have a few slow DC chargers around cities, but are not out on the highway yet as shows in the above map, and most of their locations have 1 or 2 chargers, and if a slow charging Bolt or Leaf is there it throws a wrench in the whole operation. In CA, you do not know how many times I have pulled up to a charger and there is a Bolt blocking the charger, and the a$$ driving it is determined to charge to 100% SOC, so he delays cars that can actually take a real fast charge for an hour or more to get his top up.

 
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